MTV Interviews Kanye West 2002

INTERVIEWER: How did you get your start?KANYE WEST: I've been rapping since 3rd grade. I used to listen to Run DMC, LL and be equipment sneaking and listen to the rap with the bad words and Eazy-E and Beastie Boys and all that. And then I remember they brought out Yamahas and Casio keyboards. There's real and style, I think. I had like an urge to really create, but I never wanted to really learn how to play music like that, so that was stagnating my growth because my mother was always like, "Well if you can't play, you don't need to [have a] type of keyboard that could sequence and all that type." So once I was in seventh grade, I was really into drawing and I wanted to design video games, so I got this Amiga computer which was really good for all that. It was $500 and had all type of graphic programs and everything.[Interruption by someone entering]So one of those keyboards came out, or I had my computer, and I was trying to draw, and then I got a sound program. Like somebody bootlegged a copy of the disc for me for the sound program. I found myself just wanting to work on that all the time. Then I found myself running home from school 'cause I had an idea, looking at the clock playing at 2/3, like man, I want to get this beat down.But I didn't even know anything about sampling. I was 14 years old. I went to Chuck Levin's out in Maryland and they told me, "People that do the type of music you do, they sample." I had no idea. I just returned. I didn't know why my stuff didn't sound exactly like the stuff on the radio then. But the sampler was like $2,000, and for somebody that's 14 years old and getting allowance, that was like 8 million dollars. My father's like, "Yo, maybe you could save with your allowance." I had like $20 a week. Like, how am I going to save up for $2,000?So I'm just working with that. Then I found out you can get like a little 8-bit sampler for the computer, so I got that. And of course, the first thing I wanted to sample was James Brown. So I think back then I used to try to make beats like for house parties and, you know, in the middle of songs you had to go where you feel like really start doing your running man real, real, real hard.So I started making beats and I started getting nice, and my mother came home one day. She's like, "Yo, you ever heard of Common Sense?" I was like, "Yeah, I heard Common Sense. He got a song called 'Take It Easy' on the radio right now. He's cold." She's like, "Well, I know my friend of mine said her son produces for him." I was like, "Oh, word." She's like, "Yeah, I gave his number. His name is Dion. His rap name is like Imense Mountain or something." His name was Mid Slope back then. A really bad name.We had real bad names. I'm not even gonna go into all the bad names I had. So now I went over to his crib, and I remember walking in there. It's like walking into Def Jam. It's like walking into Kevin's office or something. That's the closest you could possibly get to the industry because they actually had something that you heard on the radio and it was dope, you know? So I was over there playing my beats. I had the fast beats like what I was telling you before. Common came in, like, "These nice beats. Why are they so fast?" Because I'm thinking around that time, he's still going to rap like in the "Can I Kick It" style, but he didn't even realize the style that they were doing is the style that we do today. Like they were using "Intimate Friends" and the singing, the tune "whoo-hoo" and speeding up the singing. I was like, "Yo, give me some tips on sampling." He had the SP-1200, all the real equipment that at that time who was hot like Pete Rock, Large Professor, Pete Nuts, No ID. And I'd never even fathomed—I hadn't even stepped into a Guitar Center like that at that point. So he showed me how to sample records. He said what you do to save on sampling time is you speed them up. That's the style that we're using that everybody is using right now with the sped up samples.So I used to be sweating—I mean, buggin'—I'm trying to word myself with the least amount of profanity as possible—bugging them to death. And he changed his numbers about 100 times, but I always figured out how to get him. I'd be knocking on his window while he's with his girl. So then I had to go out on my own at that point. He told me a lot, but I had to take it upon myself to just listen to the music that was out there and try to get my music as good as that.But all along I'm always rapping. I had groups, and I was always the weakest rapper out of the people in the group, you know what I'm saying? It'll always be like somebody who really had it, but they just didn't have a passion for it. But I had the drive. Every night I was working, every night. It was like there was nothing that was gonna stop me.Like, people look up and be like, "Yo, I just heard of Kanye," like I've been doing this since—really, like, yo, telling my teachers like, "Man, I might not even have to turn in my homework this year because I'm trying to be signed this year," back in 7th grade. I told my gym teacher freshman year like, "Nah, I'm not coming to gym class." And I'm offering to be signed. My gym teacher came to me senior year like, "You ever get that record deal?"I didn't decide, they decided for me. I always wanted to rap, but my beats just so happened that people would hear this stuff and they'd be like, "Yo, do you have to rap on that? Well, if you don't, I just buy the beat from you." So basically, I was always a rapper. It was chance that, you know—let me word this very well because you might only use it as a quote and I want to be clear.I was always rapping, and it just so happened that really, really phenomenal rappers got to rap on my beats before I got a chance to. So that pushed me into the classification of a producer, but I'm a rapper from the heart. Like, I got something to say, you know what I'm saying?And people like, "What you finna rap about? You never sold crack out your house and put a gat to a mouth and put your fists to your spouse, so how you gonna move the crowd? I bet a thousand that you get booed out." You know what I'm saying?Like, now the rap game has changed so much. You go from Tribe Called Quest to Onyx to Swizz Beatz to Rockafella to the Bad Boys—so many different sounds. And it's like, almost playing like double, like when do you get in the game? You're trying to figure out how does my style fit into what's happening right now.So I'm lucky that I had the opportunity to have a plateau to stand on. Now that my style of beats is the most popular style on the radio right now, now that I turn on and hear beats that I could have sworn I did them, but I just didn't get no check for it... That's a Swizz Beatz quote right there: "I did it, I didn't get a check for it." So now that my style is hot, it's like the world can accept me.It's a lot of people, it's like you just got to get in where you fit in. You never know how you get in. You might be somebody's guy and you end up being better than that person, shining over that person. You might be an intern. It's like the question is: how do you get into this industry? How do you get into the shoes I'm in right now? I'm just happy to be here. But as an artist, I'm not finna waste this opportunity. I'm finna take this to the next level.Like when Pac first got out of jail, I said, "Yo man, Snoop Snoop is killing the game. I'm finna take Death Row to the next level." I'm like, "Whoa, too far, trying to do better than Snoop? Come on now!" But now, look. And really, that's how I feel, man. I'm a Gemini, man. This is my heart, man.INTERVIEWER: You said that you were in a couple of groups and they always considered you to be, you know, everybody else to be the better rapper. What inspired you to keep going?KANYE WEST: Man, I just had the hunger. Like, my mother never raised me to ask for a handout. Like a lot of people that get into this game, they walking around with somebody else's chain on or driving somebody else's car and didn't even pay for the shoes that they got on their feet. My mother had a decent job, you know what I'm saying, but she gave me a little allowance, 15-20 dollars a week, and I had to go out and get my own job at age 15. Matter of fact, at 14 I was cutting hair in the barber shop.So it was instilled in me to go out and just get it. And that maybe made me be a leader around a lot of black men. Like even my father—I had two fathers in my life. I had my real father that I was in contact with and my stepfather that stayed there with my mother. And everybody was instilling that responsibility in me, that nothing in life is given to you.A lot of times I feel like a lot of people just rapping 'cause it's free, you know what I'm saying? What you got to do—especially now with Jay writing "Rapping is free, people ain't got to pay for paper no more." Everybody just felt like they finna just, you know what I'm saying, come out be a rapper out the blue. At least with production, you had to go up and figure out a way to get your equipment up and go buy records and do different things.I'm talking about the work ethic is so serious, and up here at Baseline, up at the 'Roc, people's work ethic is crazy. That's why I feel like we killing the game right now. That's why we couldn't—that's why we on Flex every week. That's why all you hear practically is the 'Roc.INTERVIEWER: Did your dad know when you started rapping that this was going to be your career?KANYE WEST: Well, I don't think my father really understood. I thought that this would be the one hobby that I really do because, you know what I'm saying, one second I'm Michael Jordan, the next second I'm—who's the freestyle champion? They got his own—Dave Mirra? Who's the biker? One second I'm him, next second I'm a swimmer, I'm a professional diver. Like I was just a shorty. I was doing a bunch of stuff. I was creative. Next second I'm Michelangelo.So he probably didn't realize how serious I was about it because every little kid running around writes raps. But man, it's like I just loved it too much. I was just always trying to figure out a way for me to be able to express myself, and rap was the best way to express what was on your mind.Me and my father sit up and talk about a lot of issues that need to be brought up, but a lot of people that have that instilled in them don't know how to word it in a way where the public will accept it. So now that I got this stamp on me, I got the backing of Mos Def, Kweli, Jay-Z, I got every premier artist backing me, saying, "Dog, listen to what he said." I feel like I just got a really good opportunity, and I'm not gonna let them down. I'm definitely not gonna let my city down 'cause Chicago right now, it's like we got a lot of good artists that are just waiting for somebody to just break through so everybody else could just walk through the door at that point.INTERVIEWER: How many people did you work with before getting a record deal? Did you just give away beats for free?KANYE WEST: Man, it was gonna be some "Free 99." You don't know how many times I heard somebody say, "Yo, what's gonna happen is, you just gonna get paid when I get paid because my cousin knows a dude at this record label." And yo, they just looking for—in Chicago acting like—I went through all that, man.You know how many times I carry my keyboard over to the studio tracking some stuff for somebody? I was only trying to pay me $200 for the beat, but they only had $80 on them. And don't remember when I just bought you lunch yesterday and groceries, so—I mean, I paid my dues. When I was 14 years old, carrying—trying to do beat tapes.I remember back in grammar school, we used to have rap groups, and I had to write the raps for all the rap groups. I remember this one time, um, we're trying to do a talent show. This is where I learned, "Pick your audience." Like, you got to figure out who you were actually rapping to, because I had my music teacher—it was my favorite teacher in the world, Miss Morgan. And you know what I'm saying, she was like in the Lane Bryant size or whatever. And we got up there, and we think we're gonna perform "Fat Girls Are Back" for the talent show. So of course we didn't make it. At that point I was like, "I'm gonna then figure out who you rapping to."[Interruption]When I was trying to get on, I mean, one time I got so into hip-hop that I had an afro with no lining. I had like one of them Gap life-preserver vests. I had some Reeboks with fat laces, and I even had an overy boss, 'cause in Chicago we had—it was hard to find them. I could find the fat laces, but I couldn't find like the official old Pumas or whatever. So I was just trying to really be a live hip-hop head.Then I figured out like, "Man, I'm really getting no girls with this. This is not really working for me." So I think that's a distinction itself. Like, you go to hip-hop parties in Chicago, and nobody would be dancing with no girls. There'd be a dude doing the helicopter, gonna kick some girls in the head. They get mad, and some girls start dancing. So that's when I figured out like, "Oh, maybe whatever definition that everybody here got of hip-hop, maybe that's not what hip-hop is."Me, I love the music. So then everybody try to separate now and say, "The tune that hip-hop—because you go out and buy some jewelry." No, having jewelry is not a basis of hip-hop. Look at Rakim. Look at Run DMC. You trying to tell me they not hip-hop? It's okay. You trying to tell me because Mos Def and Kweli don't buy jewelry that they are more hip-hop than Jay-Z? Or what's quote-unquote "real hip-hop"?I feel like my album, the perspective that I'm gonna speak from, I feel like I'm gonna bridge the gap. I'm gonna be one of the people that help bridge the gap with hip-hop because I'm gonna talk from the perspective of just being honest. Like, "Yo, I always said if I rap, I'd say something significant. But now I'm talking about money, hoes, and rims again."Like, I want to do what's right, but I'm a human being. Like, okay, I got songs like "Jesus Walks" with me, but then I got songs that's like, "I need to know if you down to do whatever, down to get it jumpin', down to get top off this baby." I'm a man. I'm a human being. People feel like, "If you're an artist, you can only rap about this one subject. You have to stand for this specifically."I'ma stand for everything I seen in my life, and I'm gonna try to express that to y'all the best I can. And I feel like I'm creative enough that I'm gonna make it work. I know nobody has ever stood up and said, "Yo man, let me actually show you that it's more than one side to me."I don't know if I really believe in that Gemini stuff and all the constellations and all that—like, I really believe in God—but I know that it's more than one side to me. I know on one end, when I get a check and sometimes I be thinking like, "Yo man, I'm finna go and get this chain off layaway from Jacob's right now." Sometimes I had some money in my pocket, and I might give him $20 instead of just $2. I know that I'll go to church with my grandparents and really try to hear what the word is or what they try to tell me. I really try to understand about religion or what I want to pick.So I'm confused as a black man. A lot of times, artists come into the aspect that they're confused about who they are. And then you always hear about, "Man, I learned album, but she a hypocrite" or "He's a hypocrite" 'cause—I thought a lot, a lot, a lot, you know what I'm saying? It's like, if somebody talks about killing somebody, does that make them a hypocrite if they decide to go to church? Or if they go to church, and they actually kill somebody around more? Because people don't kill—if people kill as many people as they say they do, it would be like some Vietnam type stuff, man.INTERVIEWER: What do you think coming from Chicago brings to your music?KANYE WEST: Coming from Chicago is definitely an advantage. I felt like everything that anybody ever said in life would be a disadvantage to me, I'm gonna make it my advantage. When I was playing basketball, everybody said I was too short. I'm killing them with the scoops. Everybody says, "You can't rap 'cause you a producer." Okay. "Oh, I ain't hear that beat." "Oh yeah, I know I produced it. Just rapped on it before you got a chance to hear it."I'm gonna use everything that everybody says that I can't do, or I'm gonna flip it to the positive. Like I look at everything as a glass half full and half empty. And it's like, I'm a tell person I don't hold grudges. Like one of my best friends made a song dissing me, and I looked at all the positive in the situation. I'm like, "Look, that's poking my name out more." He came to me like, "Yo, I'm sorry."Like I feel like maybe a lot of the rules of hip-hop, like a lot of the aggression and the negativity that people have towards people—maybe I'm not hip-hop because of that, because of where my heart is. So because I won't conform to what people say.A lot of stuff—I feel like 90% percent of life is what happens to you, 90% is how you react to it. Hip-hop is based up—a lot of times in the past—is people reacted negatively to situations. It's like, I'm gonna listen to things that my father told me and my stepfather told me and walk like that. And try and try to walk in a way that I could look to God the next day.If it's something I got to repent for, it's something I repent for. It's something that as a man—'cause I got things that I'm addicted to. Like I like to be in the club and do the club thing and stuff. But also it's like I know. It's just like I had to follow Him. And I'm not easily influenced. Like when I was in kindergarten, people used to tell me stories, like they come, and all the kindergarteners would be following me around the class because I'd be the one that said "no."A lot of times I feel like if people don't agree with what you're saying, and they'd be like, "Oh man, F him, he a B-word. He didn't want a dolla out of rock." It's all the same theory what your parents used to tell you a long time ago, like, "Yo, if he drove off the bridge, would you jump off also?" I'm not jumping off no bridges. Go ahead, go. Y'all guys, I'm gonna be up here. I'm just be a bit living right now.I moved to New York. I said—I said one line, I'd be like, "How you go to New York, which I never took a tour there, but you know you got to be rich just to be poor there." It's a song I got on my album called "Dream Killers" that basically talks about how people just try to just down you. [Kanye performs a rap verse from "Dream Killers"]There's a lot of concepts that people—they never touched on in rap. I really like No Name's album and Musiq's album because they're not afraid to talk about issues that people really go through, you know what I'm saying? Whatever happened to real life, you know what I'm saying? Whatever happened to, "I know a girl—I can't really afford this movie, we got to go—. I know I got jewelry on and everything, but—" Whatever happened to, "You know, I was in the club, and I ain't really get no girls, like four girls dissed me"?That's like anti-hip-hop, right? Because hip-hop was always about fronting, always acting like—I feel like that's the black mentality anyway. Because since we ain't never had nothing, and we get a little something, we got to show it to prove something, you know what I'm saying? It's almost like the concept of walking in the store, and you look like a shoplifter unless you got some on. You feel like you gotta wear jewelry just to get the same service. I say—I say in a rap, "Getting green make you almost white."INTERVIEWER: What do you think was the breaking point for you career-wise?KANYE WEST: My man, I still feel like I ain't in the game where I needs to be. I still feel like there's no real breaking point. You have to just struggle every day because when you do something good, you have so much on your back, you have so much to prove at that point. So now you're trying to just move forward.I could say my breaking point was when I heard "I'm Bad" by LL Cool J or something, okay? But I feel like you had to struggle. I feel like to this point, I still feel like I haven't broken through. I want to break because in my heart there's so much stuff I want to say to the world, and the most I've been able to do up to this point is maybe suggest a couple of lines to some people.It's like I really got a lot on my mind. Like I see stuff, and I—the way I word it—I'm not using rap as a way that I think I'm gonna get paid or something. I'm using that as an opportunity to really say some stuff that I think needs to be heard, that I think people will enjoy.I'm trying to give back. I want Q-Tip to hear myself like, so I can listen to this album every day. I want to give back to when I used to listen to Mobb Deep's album on the train with my headphones on. And that's what made the train ride fun. I was in the Benz 'cause I just had that album. I said it didn't matter what car I was in. It didn't matter if I was walking the street in pouring rain or what happened because I had the headphones on. I had that hip-hop in my ears. Like it's done so much for my life.So until I feel like I could really, really give back, I feel—but definitely like I got to always shout out to like Rockafella, D-Dot, Jermaine Dupri. It's a lot of people that's helped me in my life. But maybe now Rockafella's finally let me get to the point that I've been waiting to get to my entire life since third grade, man.INTERVIEWER: When did you know you wanted to be a rapper?KANYE WEST: I knew I wanted to be a rapper like—well, I knew it was like, "Yo, I'm not gonna do anything else." Like I say, I was 19 years old, and I was in college, and I had demos. And I produced a couple tracks for people that actually had albums coming out. They weren't on major labels, they weren't finna go gold or anything. And I had my demo, and I knew it was getting hot. And I was freestyling, and I knew I was ripping, ripping stuff down. And I knew I was crushing them. I knew I was crushing everybody on the beats.So I had this song—I'm not even gonna say what the title of song is because I name's gonna let it get used against me. But I had this song, it was like a single-sounding song, I guess. And this dude from Columbia—I forgot all his name—that walked it in and flew me out to New York. We had the whole VIP, the limo, was eating upstairs at the Sony building. I'm walking in Sony building like, "Oh God."Walking in there every day now, it's nothing, but back then, coming from Chicago, then I go, "You finna get signed to Columbia Records." At that time, he had Nas and the Fugees. It's like, "Yo, finna follow in they footsteps." I had my gear ready, my bucket hat—check. Everything, no.I had the—I like the hat—like the old man hat, what we used to wear. I was Polo'd up, you know what I'm saying? We do Polo hard, man. Shout out to TJ Maxx and Marshalls, man. Thank you, saved my life.So we went on in there, and then—I told—this type of story I can't even tell on camera like this 'cause it's too many names involved. I had to change the name to protect the innocent. I told the A&R guy, I was like, "Yo man, I'll be bigger than Michael Jackson. I'm being bigger than Jame Dupree. We're okay."For a long time, people selling me, "Man, if you go out to New York, you could really get your music going. You could really kill the game out there." But, you know, you got your family out there, I got my girl out there, I'm a group out there. I felt like I had a responsibility to the city to stay there and help try to make it blow.But then it's like, it was drawing straw after straw to the straw that broke the camel's back. I had two artists. One artist ended up leaving me, getting signed, and didn't get any beats from me. Then I had another artist, and I signed them to my company, and then he ended up leaving. And when he was telling me he's leaving, my landlord came upstairs and was like, "You have too much traffic in your house. You're evicted."So I was like, "Man." At that point, if I weren't ready to leave by then—so I really thank God. That's another one of those situations. But I knew that it was a sign, and then I automatically, when that happened, I said, "Oh, I see what's happening. God don't want me to be here no more."So I grabbed all my stuff up, just threw it in—I didn't even tell my landlord I was leaving. 'Cause you'd been on some nitpicking, probably tried taking my whole security deposit and all that. And I just drove to New York. I hadn't even seen my apartment. I ended up driving. I got apartment in Newark. So you know, if I went to Newark, I definitely hadn't seen where I was moving.And earlier, like two months before that, I was in a car accident where my expedition had flipped over three times, and I guess it was meant for me to be here—something for me to walk away from that. So that was a blessing.So I was out here. I had a car, so I used to just take the New Jersey Transit. And I pack up all my stuff, pack up all my discs, and put them in a bag and just walk over here to Baseline. And that was the key right there, being able to walk up in the Baseline and play these rappers these beats.And I remember at Memphis Bleek's birthday, I came and I played a bunch of like soul beats. Like we had soul beats here and there, well, I had a bunch that I was building up. Just like from the success of "Can't Be Life," I was like, "I need to make some more stuff in this vein right here."So I'm playing Bleek some beats. He's smiling. As he's saying, but you had to go somewhere—no, he's been going somewhere for his birthday. So Hov came in. Hova had a Gucci hat on, like the fisherman joint. And Hip-hop, my manager, who definitely saved my life, was like, "Go play that one beat." So I played it, and Jay came on, turned. He was just like, "Oh, this crazy right here."Then they got to the chorus, and the chorus is like, "Ain't no love in the heart of the city." He's like, "Oh, doing this like that." Then he's like, "Play next beat, play next beat." I'm playing another beat. Just—I'm like, "Yo man, you were soulful, do." And everything that whole verse—I would never forget none of these words 'cause I'm off the train. I'm from Chicago. I got $10 in my pocket right now, and I'm just having the opportunity to play these beats.So I'm, you know what I'm saying, I've had different so-called hit records and everything up to that point. But at this point, it's like I'm just—this is like the moment of truth for me right here. So now I play another beat, then I play another beat. Then I play this one beat, it was like, "Never change, never change," I never change. Yo, he took his hat—he's like, "I like that." Maybe you like—hold my Gucci hat. So he was like, "Put them joints on CD." Then he left out.Okay. I'm putting these joints on CD. You see what happen. So then two weeks later, The Blueprint was finished. So basically, at that point, everything started rolling. Everybody's like, "Yo man, I heard you got half the Blueprint album. I heard you did have of Jay-Z's album." I couldn't even believe it myself at the point when it was happening.Then I started connecting. I knew my people Dead Prez. I knew just different people, and my dog 88 Keys. One night said he's having a rapper come up here just to play some beats. So dude walks through the door, and it's Mos Def. I'm like, "Oh!" So I didn't have no beats on me at that time. I think I was trying to rap for him. He's like, "Yeah, whatever."I started say a rap over—because I'm like I'm almost deaf—like a rap. There it was—had a real, real weak beat I was rapping it over. I said, "Yeah, I should have picked a better rap." 'Cause when you meet a rapper, I was in the same shoes that somebody—I walk up to me now, I walk up to any of these rappers. Well, you got—you got one opportunity to say your best rap that you think is gonna impress this specific rapper the most, you know?And that didn't work. Whatever I was spitting. But he's like, "Yo, we gotta beat something." Like, "Yo man, play a beat." And I was telling about—to take over—because he got Jack Johnson, so he was really into rock stuff. I was like, "I got some more stuff like that." I had nothing else like that. They would have made some more stuff.So then I think maybe a week later, I play some beats for Mos—a bunch of joints I had that was in that vein, you know what I'm saying, of stuff that I thought he liked. Next thing you know, Mos Def got 5 beats.So then I go to studio to play Mos some beats one day, and he wasn't there. And this dude was in the hallway. He was like, "Yo, you here for Mos?" I looked up, it was Kweli. He's like, "Yo man, what's up, dude? You Kanye West?" I was like, "Yeah." He's like, "He ain't—could you play me some beats?" I'm like, "Um, well, I had a CD that's for Mos' beats right quick though."So I walked in, I played some beats, now I got Kweli's first single. I got three joints on his album. So it was happening like I felt like God was just walking me. God kicked me in the ass to get out of the Chi. He put me in situations where it wasn't like I was going out like, "Yo, let me try to meet these artists." Like I wasn't even thinking about who I was all the time, but I was just thinking about how I was gonna get my record deal.So it so happened that he putting me in situations where I was able to eat, able to build relationships. Because I feel like Mos helped me get my record deal. Like I did a song with him, which is my first single, and it's a two-word joint that's crazy. It's me, him, and Freeway. And I had a bunch of crazy songs. But when Dame heard that, he was like, "Yo." I mean, I first heard—because I supposed to go to a bunch of different labels, man.Like it got to the point after Blueprint, a bunch of labels wanted me. And the 'Roc—it always never seemed like I could be at the 'Roc because of my subject matter and everything. And he's not in the same exact vein as the rappers that y'all used to. But now we expanding, and I expanded the music I was doing because I was doing very creative stuff, but then I be giving Hov and Bleek and Beanie all these gonna beats that people really like. So it's like, why not just rap over the beats that people like? Still say what I'm talking about.So one day I'm playing this stuff—I just want to play some songs at Baseline, and Cam'ron's in the studio just to see like, "Man, is my stuff worthy of playing it around these people yet?" Because people used to diss my stuff like, "Man, you always pick wack beats to rap over or you trying to be too different."So I played it, then Dame heard it. He was like, "Yo, okay, play on, play another one." I'll play another one. He's like, "Yo, yo, is that evil wack? Is that wack? It's kind of dope actually. It's kind of hot. This kind of hot. Yo, yeah. Ain't Shyne with Capitol yet, did you? I lay the ice." I would've bet he's like, "Go, okay, play another one."So I played another one. He's like, "Go, yo, okay. Kim, what you think we could do like a Chronic?" Because he's cause Chronic. So I could stop—see, he could be like—and he starts just going into the whole—the rest of what my career is about to be right now and the difference. Like Dame is like, "Yo, it could be this too." Dip what the—he could just read—he rapped like a regular—like a real better than—"I don't think so now, 'cause the hip-hop—" INTERVIEWER: What was your first record where you got recognition?KANYE WEST: The Blueprint and then—I'm over here with the opportunity to get my music out, which is what I wanted since third grade. I feel like the first record where I really got recognition for was "The Truth," even though it wasn't a great commercial success. It's like I just really got that respect because I always wanted respect for my music. Like I told you, man, it's the real thing right here, man. I'm not trying to do this for a check.So "The Truth" meant a lot to me. Then that was a great record 'cause also for my relationship with Rockafella. Then the next joint was "Can't Be Life." Then out that "Can't Be Life," I had all these joints, but I wasn't selling no beats. It was like after I moved out to New York, I started getting things going. I got the joints on the Blueprint.I remember I came in studio one day, and Hov listened to all the songs 'cause all he recorded the songs in like five minutes. And then for the rest of the day, he just makes people come over and just storm. But yeah, they got killer. So basically, he was about to leave out the room, and he had played the songs. He's like, "Yo, after this song get done, I'm going to the Laos." I was like, "Yo, I got one beat to play. I gotta play you just beat. I gotta play this beat."So then he's like, "Okay," you know what I'm saying? "You did good so far. You gave me six joints hot as blazes." So I'm glad I listed it out. That's what he's thinking. He's just like, "Okay, play the beat, man." So I put it on. He start bobbing his head to it. Like I'm getting—when I'm looks like that's how you know you got a heat. Grab me, get you down already. Maybe about two or three minutes later, I don't know, it was like this. He just tapped me on the shoulder. He said, "Aston, this is low featured. This is about it."So I went to the bathroom. I called my mom and said, "Mom, we got to make it. We really got to make it."So then "H to the Izzo," and we had a conversation for a long time. So then Tone Trackmaster came in, and we had difficulties going back and forth. I did the track, trying to—Tone heard the beginning. He was like, "Yo, just use beginning for the chorus." That's of course. And Hov's like, "Nah, I want to make no more name courses." So Tone's like, "Nah, just have a girl sing over it." He's like, "Oh, the point of..." I see. That's why you make the big bucks. That's why you make the big bucks."Then we had to figure out what was all the words gonna be because all we had was "H to the Izzo, V to the Izzay." So two minutes later, we trying to come up with the in-between words, right? He said that's the anthem, get your damn hands up. So I went to the DuPont registry, right? So I start picking out cars what I was gonna get. Like when it came out, I did get—like when it finally came out, I did have to go purchase some—excuse me, most def and Kweli, apologize—I purchased foreign vehicles.INTERVIEWER: How did you feel when you heard your song "Izzo" on the radio the first time?KANYE WEST: Did you see that? Yeah, I saw it. Like, "Oh man, that fell." You know exactly what that felt like? That felt like on "Five Heartbeats" when they heard his song on the radio. And I wasn't even sure that he was gonna do that. So I had no idea it wasn't even tracked. It was two-tracked—it was Pro Tools at a time. He said, "You I want to do a new song ladies and—" No, it's all—the day it came on, oh my God. I think I was on a phone with my girl, and she just started screaming like "Five Heartbeats." Like, "We gotta be shoppin'."So after that, they all—kind of phone calls, man. Two ways it was just—it was on at that point. And all along though, I'm trying to figure out like, "Man, how am I gonna get my rap career?" Is there—if a couple of rappers good—is he a vet in the game? Is there ain't no new dudes is coming out the box making that? Because if you've been in the game a long time, you've seen so much, you know what I'm saying? You're experienced. You go from all everything that you had from being on the block and doing whatever you had to do to seeing the entire world.So how's a new artist or a 19-year arts gonna come in and outdo that? So I said, "Look, I can't talk about what he's talking about. I gotta talk about something from here." Instead of trying to compete with him, let me just try to find something that ain't none of these rappers searching on yet.Like I got a song, it's called "Self-Conscious." When one of the hip-hop artists ever make a song called "Self-Conscious," you know what I'm saying? When I'd be like, I see like—I start with the girl part. I say—[Kanye performs verses from "Self-Conscious"]See, I'm no regular producer rap. I told you that before, man.INTERVIEWER: What do you think helped you break through?KANYE WEST: Man, it's just persistence, man. After a while—like, I wasn't just rapping for everybody. Like Bleek—man, even though I could rap until I was about to have a deal, then it's like when I spit—like, "Oh, Kanye, he rock. I can't believe this. I can't believe the dude that make beats this good can actually rap this good."Like I was working with Mocha. She's like, "Yo, it's crazy. It's like he rapped just as good as he makes beats. I've never seen this before, man." On a real—I wish I did rap as good as I make beats. Hopefully, the more I practice—because if I rapped as good as—every time—yo, I feel like if I do what I'm supposed to do, people gonna look back like, "Man, dude, remember dude? You should just make beats for people?" You talk about—like I'll try to get to the point where I could drop my last name off my name.No, seriously, like I don't want to jinx myself or nothing, but I'm gonna take this opportunity like—I got some songs, I got some stuff in my heart that the world need to hear. And I said I think about what I'm doing. Like I figured like, "Okay, I want to express this message," but maybe I might have to get another artist on it and places like this and put it in this vein. I'm not just gonna step out and just be like, "Yo, just look at everything I have right now," and the world not accept it.I got to put it in a way that the world will accept it and then develop it into being an artist. And when you see me on stage, like a lot of times, I feel like I'm very animated, I'm very emotional because when I say, it means so much to me that eventually the people are gonna have to accept it.As being a producer, yeah, a couple people know me as a producer, but I'm not that big as a producer. I'm not even gonna fool myself. I got a couple hits, but tomorrow's not promised. So I'm still taking the sacrifice. Like I could look at it like I got some beats that's so blazing on my album, and I could look at it—if I in some way was to fail and say, "Well, why not just get this beat the DMX? And why just get that beat the Ja Rule? Why not just follow the producer path?"So it's once again at a point of my life where I have to step away from something I'm doing or retreat in order to follow with my dreams really are because you can't win the war—you can't fight every battle and win the war. Sometimes you got to retreat and then come back. And say I've already taken a loss—like I'm not selling as many beats as I used to sell because I'm sitting up here trying to think of raps and stuff. I mean, but I gotta follow my heart, man.Everybody look at me and say, "Yo, man, he crazy, man. He trying to rap, man. What's wrong? He's stupid, trying to rap." Yo, I can't—let—I can't react to that. But I'm thinking how people just told me I was stupid for trying to rap, and now, now I'm up here on MTV You Hear First, you know what I'm saying? It feel good right now, man.INTERVIEWER: When you're producing, what makes you decide to keep a beat for yourself or give it to someone else?KANYE WEST: Man, that's one of the hardest questions right there. Depending on—are you gonna say this beat for yourself? He couldn't try to give it to somebody else. This is what I do. This is the truth for the matter. I take every beat that I think is hot, and I try to rap on it first. And if it don't come out hot, then I give it to somebody else—except if we in the process of working on somebody's album.Like, okay, see, if we working on a Blueprint 2, I might even—before I fathom rapping on it—I might bring it to Jay. I bring it to the top caliber rappers. Then I try to rap on it. Then I play favorites, but oh, you know what I'm saying? People already saying, "No, you be giving me the best beats." What? Nah, man, I feel like sometimes people don't even like my best beats. Like when my album comes out, the beats that are two years old, people are like, "Yo, you were saving that beat." I'm like, "Nah, man, I played that for everybody."Sometimes people just have to see it in song form them. I had to hear it on the radio. I'm in—the truth—people was dissing "The Truth" so much. Like, and then when it came out, people's like, "Oh man, went out with that, man. Why just sitting there?" People is like, "Man, it don't send me the heat, man. Send me the heat. Why are you sending me this, man?"INTERVIEWER: How do you work with artists? Do you record with them or send them beats?KANYE WEST: Everybody got this style of rap. I'm tell you—Mos and Jay both will spit their verse real fast, real proficient. Like, it's—people—top-down beats for—where I actually didn't get to be in a session with them, where they just sent it out. I'm telling you, you're looking at You Hear First. Real—it's not to produce a standpoint of a Dre or a Timberland. That's up to that—like it's not sweet like that yet. It's still for the love to a certain extent.So everybody telling me like, "Yo man, when you get on TV, man, you gotta personify something more than where you are." But I'm always walking the steps now I'm at right there. And hopefully one day I be to the point where I can say like a Dr. Dre or Timbaland like, "Yo, I just work with every single artist that I ever did it before." But I know working with Jay definitely can spoil a producer because there's no work at all other than to play your beat. The next thing you know, you got a hit song on the radio. That's why Jay's just smart, man. He's like, "Man, I'm not gonna try to go out and find the new rappers. I got Kim, Bleek, Beanie, Hov, Freeway, Young Gunz—like, why—why I need to go develop an artist if I got already developed artists and I'm getting money like I'm supposed to anyway," you know what I'm saying?One time I was working on a demo in my crib—for $500—for somebody at my crib. I ain't even want to be in my house, but I had to. It was something that I need. I want to get a penny off layaway or something. So I'm in there doing demos for $500, and they in the back room recording whack, terrible. I'm talking to Just on the phone. He like, "Yo," [Just says something]—yes or whatever though. "I got to go, man. I think that's Buster right behind me." Like, "Yo, I need to get out there, man. But what am I doing, man? I'm here—he over there doing beats for Busta. I'm doing beats for [laughter]."INTERVIEWER: How do you handle people who say they're going to buy a beat and don't?KANYE WEST: A lot of times with beats, man, people will be acting like the beats is gonna be there for them, you know what I'm saying? Like a beat is not sold until the check clears, period, unless you hold—Scarface is always—is always exceptions, you know what I'm saying? Like I hold a beat for Jay like, "Yo, I leave this beat in my wheel." See he told me he's gonna rap on it, so I'm still holding it.But as far as like this in general, man, it's like if you don't pay for the beat, it might be going. It's like beats is like they in a store, you know what I'm saying? Like say you go level—like you go to Mitchell and Ness and you tell them, "Yo man, hold this but crazy throwback." That don't know why—they get that. "I would be killing the club. I kill the club with this right here. Just hold this for me. I'll be back tomorrow." So you hold it for him till tomorrow, then you hold it two weeks. Do you hold it three weeks? Then you sell it.And it's like, "Yo, you don't remember you did that beat?" Like, "Don't man. It's the store, man." Business is for the love of hip-hop. So if I love the artists, the more—the more and more I love the artists, the more leeway I give, you know what I'm saying? I love Scarface. Hold Crime, Mos. I used to—I grew up on Pharrell—Monster stuff. Like Organized Confusion, the second album. That's like one of my favorite albums. So is the Mischief, Far Side, Common.INTERVIEWER: Will you work with other producers on your album?KANYE WEST: That's like my trademark and say, "Um, um." I don't mean no harm, your boy, your kid. Got a—mean no harm, man. As far as working with other producers, it's a lot of people that I really respect like Timbaland and Dre, Just Blaze. But on this project right here, I'm trying to do 99% of it 'cause I want to prove to the world I could do a whole album. I'm saying I had—Dre got that, Neptunes got that opportunity, Timberland, Neptunes.And in order to get on that level, you had to take an artist and prove that you could produce the whole project, singles and be successful with that. And success is not just kidding. I'm trying to speak and by—total.As far as working with other producers, is a lot of producers I respect, like Timbaland and Dre, Just Blaze, but on this project right here, I'm trying to do 99% 'cause I had to prove myself as a producer that I could take her artist—being myself—like to congratulate myself. This is what [favorite quotes that I like]—"to congratulate myself, allow myself to introduce myself."This is creative. As far as dealing with other producers, there's a lot of producers I respect—Timberland, Dre, Big, Just Blaze. I can name more—Primo, Pete Rock. But on this project right here, I'm gonna do 99% of it 'cause I feel like I really got to prove to the world that I could do a whole project and be successful. And it's just so happy that the prize is me myself. So I'm gonna definitely get myself some bank of some heat rocks.INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us a bit about where we are right now?KANYE WEST: Okay, right now we are sitting in Baseline Studios. We got Young Gunz in the house. It's now official. You say Google's in house. I'm just really tugging it out there now. Okay. Right now, right now, I want Baseline Studio. It's the home of hip-hop right now. I'm basically cutting edge hip-hop. This is the home of the streets, of the radio, of everything. That it's basically where everything that everybody is trying to do right now, and this is where it all starts right here.This is where we did "The Reason" for Beanie Sigel. This is where we did The Blueprint, the new Freeway album. This is where the heat rocks—so Cam right now, I'm—was done. And also, this is where we're gonna be doing a Kanye West project. Did you see? I ended that off without it like going into another sentence.INTERVIEWER: How close is your album to completion?KANYE WEST: I'm basically completed. I'm just a certain little heat rocks in there whenever I come on with this new—is just that I feel from my heart needs to be heard. But it's a lot of stuff that the whole album is gonna get heard eventually, even if stuff doesn't make this album because everything is something that the world needs to hear.And I had a features of people just that I work with and I admire and I love like Scarface, Ludacris, Twista, man. How am I like forgetting some of my features? I don't have a lot of features—Mos Def, yo, most definitely, Kweli. Like I got a lot of people, real lyricists that's respected. Like I want to place myself next to these—it's not a matter of, "Okay, I'm gonna go get whoever's selling the most records as an attempt to sell records."Like as far as his album, I felt like y'all gonna get something real. As far as I'm a felt like you're gonna get something that's truly real because if it didn't work, I could still eat off of doing beats. So I'm that pressed to impress her and all by saying y'all me get the right singing in the right temple on this state. And I got to get the jump off like—I'm just trying to do something to give back to my people.I want the same people that love Tribe Called Quest, some Abdi, for Nas and Jay-Z first album to hear my stuff and be like, "That's some real stuff." This ain't no just trying to be on the radio type stuff. Hopefully I get radio, I pray that the people love it, but this is for y'all. Was that within 30 seconds right there? That was okay.INTERVIEWER: Can you tell us about your tattoo?KANYE WEST: Yeah, yeah. I gotta take this off. You know, first of all I want to say, what is this right here? Who's gonna put they gun through this? Like that can't be serious. Just put this—he's gonna roll this one right up. This shirt is not—you're really—this—it's an optical illusion because I've been in real life staring at your shirt. Well, you see the Scotty feather right there, okay?This right here—this tattoo means a lot to me. I put a lot of the songs on here that's changed my life or just it means something at a point in my career. That way when we in—when my family's in a million dollar home and they look back, they say, "Dad, why you gotta—why'd you get all tattoos? Why got that tattoo?" I be like, "Look, this tattoo is the reason why we here, why we are right here now."It's trying to say "you made me." Everything in this tattoo can be spoken in a sentence form. It's not just songs and stuff that means stuff to me. Like "you made me," this is my life right here. "So ghetto." I always speak the truth. People always say that I'm a very truthful person. "This can't be life." It can be like that I'm sitting right here right now 'cause back when I was in seventh grade, I wouldn't have ever thought I'm really being on this side of your screen."It's nothing like it." I try to make my music where there's nothing like what I do. And a lot of times I lose out because of that because I'm always trying to be so creative that sometimes I could create something and a whole bunch of people can go wrong with it and make a lot of money off of it. But I'm feeling like I want to get a public something new. So it's like other people capitalize on trends, and I just hope that's not my downfall. I hope I can just keep creating.This right here is "The Anthem." Now y'all know what that is. That definitely was a groundbreaking record for me, my first Grammy-nominated record. "Hey Mama," this is my first Grammy award-winning record right here, what hasn't won a Grammy yet, but just keep this on file. "Heart of the City"—I do my music for the heart of the city again, is from the heart of city. And after whatever happens, I never change.People always ask me what's gonna happen. Like once I make more hits, I've made pulling at his other than these songs on here, but I'm telling you at this point is I never changed. Like I said, these are songs that I did do, but this is a scroll of my life, a lot of rules that I follow.INTERVIEWER: Who else do you want to work with?KANYE WEST: Okay, well nice for life. I'm trying to go to Commissioner Gordon. I went to Dead Prez. I'm going all the people that I know that know that I'm cool with her. And I'm basically I'm just go to her, and I'm performing. I'm each other my well, my whole movement is and a lot of stuff that I'm trying to touch song. And I'm like, "Miss Hill, can you please clear this Robby?" And not that I'm just gonna do it at shows.All right, so if we could just like hug it like you played track and I know it's phony producers type stuff. And then maybe if you want to I press record with the mic like this and then spit so that would be like... [End of interview]*There may be errors on this page.