Joe Budden Podcast: Welcome to episode 188 of the Joe Budden podcast. I'm your host Joe Budden , here with a few of my nearest and dearest friends. Parks is here, Maul is here, Rory is here, Savon is here, Erickson is here, Ian is here, and Ice is here. There's mad other niggas here. We have guests so let me hit a round of applause for our guests. We like to be gracious when we have guests now.
Not only do we not normally have guests but we certainly don't have them on a Wednesday, right? That's true. So this is the first time in a long time and I told other niggas it was like friends that was around that day like a guest, but this is a very special occasion. We have a very special guest, Pusha T is here with us and I'm gonna hit the round of applause again. I think a gunshot warrants gunshots over the applause for Push.
Pusha T: I like the applause. You said I was a nice guy, a really nice guy. Let's keep it applause.
Joe Budden Podcast: Push, here's the thing with Push. Push walked in the room and said hi to every single person. Of course it was very nice. It was mad good etiquette, but he got rid of the rapper stereotype quick. Man, rappers don't say hi, asked everyone's name. Rappers don't say hi.
Push is one of the first niggas, and he don't really get credit for this, but he's one of the first niggas that was like a street nigga to have like a pop star representation like Vince Staples does. There's a few of you guys out there now. Is what you mean like what you guys... the street niggas are like really well connected in business?
Pusha T: Yeah, for sure. I feel like you were one of the first on that wave, at least for my generation anyway, as far as my producer affiliation period in business in business.
I think it's all about the hustle. I think with the content, the content that I have, man, it may be a ceiling to the content that I have and you gotta hustle other ways. I mean, I do for sure.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you feel like there's a ceiling to the content?
Pusha T: Yeah man, I mean you can't... Feel like that? Yeah, no it is. I feel like it is. I feel like, you know, it's like I look at it like this - you had the Hove era right, and you know his content, all that, it reached the ceiling. Everything that happened within that time has to me fallen lower than that, it's falling under it. You can't have that crack era bubble explosion. When you got that content like he was before me, so me coming under it, I can be great at it, I can be good, we can talk about it, but it's probably not gonna hit that, you know, as far as commercial success, that type of thing. Culturally I feel like people are gonna dive in on it and it's still relevant, but we've seen people have commercial success with this content.
Joe Budden Podcast: What do you mean, who?
Pusha T: I mean Ross... that... No, no, not to that level. That's a high ceiling. That's a deal. Now I get what... It's up there though. But Hove at some point had to switch.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, yeah, that's nice. He definitely went a little more pop. His B-sides were that content, his singles were not very much. I'm just saying, you know, the Hard Knock Life, 4.5... That type. It's the Jordan stigma.
See, but I always tell new rappers, like see for me you're in that... I tell new rappers if you're gonna rap about drugs, right, there's Hove, there's Push, there's Jeezy, and that's where my list stops when I'm talking to new rappers that want to do that. You have to have an angle, you have to do it as good as these gentlemen or better because y'all three are like the pinnacle of that to me.
Listen Push, I like that. I want to start this by shouting out Karen Civil who texted me and said that she better get her associate producer credit.
Pusha T: Right, right. Shout out to Karen. She told me the same shit.
Joe Budden Podcast: Listen, I'm from the school of credit is important. You have to give it to people. So Karen, I want to thank you for somehow facilitating this moment. Yes, I don't have an icebreaker question Push. Let's get right to the shits, man. Rules and beef - there are none. Actually, Rory sent that fucking Styles P Davies clip to the group chat today.
Pusha T: Yeah, I thought that was a pretty good summary.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yes, coming from an era where there were no rules and Drake is coming down to that era with this battle, he can't make the rules more or less. All right, I want to try to counter it somehow, but I want to start by snitching on my cohorts to huge Drake fans.
Pusha T: I'm so familiar. It's fine. This one here?
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh I'm... great. I'm a Push fan too. I'm still Re-Up Gang hive. I'm snitching. I mean, what are we talking about? See but the fact I had Lord Willing in my bedroom...
Pusha T: But the fact that you are so familiar, and that's what I was arguing about, but that's what I was talking to Rory about before you got here, or Ice. I was talking to somebody. You are an extremely cerebral man.
Joe Budden Podcast: Like... Oh, look it'd be funny. Your understanding is top notch, bro.
Pusha T: Am I?
Joe Budden Podcast: Yes, you're right. But that's why I'm here. So that's why for me I won't allow that. That's like a cop out. That's why I'm here. You can't say you guys are like analytical... yeah, condescending. Yes, you see for me, we are not condescending.
Pusha T: I didn't know I was condescending. I'm only here because y'all are a lie detector test to me. All of you.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay, okay. I respect all of you. I look at all of you as a lie detector test. I respect... I'll take it.
Pusha T: Really, tell me more. I'm here. Tell me more about that.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's vague. That's just what it is. I want to have a complete understanding.
Pusha T: I think that, like I said, just very well versed, very well versed in rap of course, very condescending, very analytical. You see through the... Right? Even when you be on TV, I watch you when somebody say some and you ain't supposed to say when you supposed to be politically correct, your face doesn't even hide it well, brother. I could just tell that you not saying nothing. I'm like right, he doesn't believe that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Push, I don't know how to be politically correct.
Pusha T: Hey bro, it's fine. I don't... That's why I don't... That's why I'm here. But that's why this platform works because this ain't no politically correct. And that is...
Joe Budden Podcast: All right, so let's get to it. No rules in beef. Well, first of all absolutely not. I agree. This beef has been brewing, it's been like a smokehouse. This shit been brewing for years. I almost want to know where it started from. I think a lot of people don't know.
Pusha T: Listen, I don't know. Let me tell you something. I mean, just to be honest with you, I don't know. Like me and him in particular, I really don't know where it started at. I could say that when I came to Good, me being on a team, I take everything personally. Like I can remember being on Good and reading the interview and Birdman say ain't nobody popping on Good except Kanye. We make New God Flow, you know what I'm saying, and you gotta kill the three of them and all whatever.
I was saying okay, like it's that shit. It could be, I'm On One came out and I feel like him shooting at Sean, some boy, dum-dum boy. Like you standing next to me, you can't shoot next to me, I might get hit. I might... That's how I'm raised. So you're gonna go for niggas that are not willing to go for themselves. I'm just saying, I just went. Period. That's just what I do.
Joe Budden Podcast: But you've been going before that. Hold up, let me think. Go ahead, let me think.
Pusha T: Well, I mean, does it spark with the Wayne affiliation at all too?
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean yeah, as far as the click stuff, you know, it could be, it could be all. I just can't tell you exactly when it started. But you have... And but you have this existing with someone who's documented as being a huge Push fan.
Pusha T: Right, but you know that's what's said, but at the same time you say that and then there's like lines here and there that I feel like... And he's really good at that. Like he's great at that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, the line and like him and Hov's under the radar. He's one of the best with the stuff.
Pusha T: Him and Hov killed assumption. So it's like, you know, with everything that was going on between that, the Cash Money, so on and so forth, I think that... And me being the only one, like it's only me. Like only me, it's I'm the only one that talks, I'm the only one that shoots, I'm the only one...
Joe Budden Podcast: But why?
Pusha T: From... Hey man, I can't speak for other men. I can't tell you that.
Joe Budden Podcast: But it's not fair, Push, because...
Pusha T: What's not fair?
Joe Budden Podcast: Because you wear many hats. Yes, so on one side you're the emcee. On another side you're the president. And at some point these roles have to get intermingled. Like as the president, if your entire squad is scared and nervous and won't fucking rap... Sean, whoever's over there as the president and also in my opinion the best rapper over there. Why you then take... If you're gonna wear that hat then you gotta always wear that hat. And you don't.
Pusha T: What do you mean I don't always wear it?
Joe Budden Podcast: You don't always pop out and speak up for and on behalf of the team, the entire team.
Pusha T: I mean, listen, it's a lot... Like I mean, what is it? What don't I? I gotta speak when it's like, bro, when it... When you have to do it, you gotta go. Like when I gotta go, I gotta go. And I go. But other than that, it's like shoot for every answer for everything, every individual man got going on, I out here... I can't do that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Exactly. So that's crazy. So you, the cerebral man that I believe you to be, you decide to zero in on this one camp?
Pusha T: That one? Nah, that one camp has been a back and forth. It's been a back and forth with that one camp.
Joe Budden Podcast: Who initiated it? And my follow-up question to that is, I'll tell you, aren't you allowed to have a... Like to me, Hove is the best rapper ever. I went straight at his head. There's a few niggas that I love that I go straight at their head. It don't mean I love them less. It just means at some point you become competition. That's it.
Pusha T: That's it. So is it personal or is it just competition?
Joe Budden Podcast: Listen, it's always been competitive with me. It's always been competitive. I mean, just where I'm from, man, for real, it ain't never personal. It's always rap because I don't believe nothing. I haven't been around here for too long. I don't believe nothing like, yo bro, you have real Wu-Tang fights? I ain't never had that ever in my life. Never. Nobody tried me. And it's like... So I don't... I look at it, I look at it as just competitive sparring.
What's up? Like I see these niggas, I see everybody, I see them in hotels, I see them, we be in elevators together, airports, but you know... So I don't... I've never taken it as serious as anything other than rap, to be honest with you.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay. Like I mean... The proof must be there. Until when? Or does... Is that still today?
Pusha T: It's still to this day. I don't believe nothing. I don't believe... I believe they're harmless. Let me say that. I believe everybody's harmless. For sure.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay. Do you guys have a follow-up or am I in here?
I want... I still... I'm still trying to figure out how this all started and then what role do you think Kanye plays in all of this? Because I feel like he plays both sides of the fence and what you're saying is you go for the team.
Pusha T: That's all I do.
Joe Budden Podcast: So my thing is, if you're gonna go for the team, like I'm the way I was raised, if we out somewhere and my man pop off and do something stupid and we got to get it shaking, I get it shaking with my man. But when we get in private, I'm gonna let my man know, yo, that was some bullshit. Facts.
So what, my thing is with Kanye, I feel like he's gotten production credit on Drake records where Drake is going at you.
Pusha T: Yes, sir. Writing credits.
Joe Budden Podcast: So it's like at some point, I don't know the relationship that y'all have, but it's like, do you speak to Ye in private like, yo, fan, what's... What's out of it? You know, me and homie got a little back and forth going on, but you producing joints for him, you in the studio, like what's up with that?
Pusha T: 100%. I mean, you know, I want to... I want to talk about this. If we're gonna... If we're gonna get into that then let's go ahead and get into...
Joe Budden Podcast: We're getting into everything.
Pusha T: Because... Because I... Because I would like to... I would love to. All right, so listen, like let's... Let's just take it. Let's start with The Shop since we here already.
You know, I fuck with the show. Show's cool, show, whatever the case may be. Great to see LeBron be opinionated and shit and curse. Cool and curse. Great. Awesome. I enjoy it. You know, hates it as a Laker fan, but whatever.
With that being said, with that being said, that particular episode, Maverick ruined the whole show for me. It wasn't authentic to me the way that he would alley-oop those questions to Drake. It was like nuts. And on top of that it was very... It was very biased and you didn't even try to camouflage the biasness.
Joe Budden Podcast: It's okay, but I don't disagree. You know, I just thought it was crazy.
Pusha T: I don't see how you could even... How you could chime in so much and never mention Two Birds One Stone, the... The... Cudi's mental health issues, mentioning my wife. I mean, I don't see how you could breeze or say anything, not say anything about any of those things.
Joe Budden Podcast: Right, right.
Pusha T: Okay. And then only speak about me wishing death, when everybody heard the song, I wish death on nobody. Not that I felt... I care. I felt that way about that.
Joe Budden Podcast: I didn't think you meant you wish that, but not that I care. Okay, let's be clear, this guy's heartless.
Pusha T: Yeah, very. Bro, my face is upside down.
With that being the case, I sit back and I just... I think about it and I just don't like how the narrative is changed. The narrative is totally changed, number one. And not for nothing, it's not true. And I'm gonna be fair like I'm gonna be fair in saying, you know what, it may make sense in Drake's mind that, "Oh, Ye told... Ye told Push about my son and my situation. I was in Wyoming," blase, blase, blah. It's wrong! Didn't happen like that. Never happened. And the reason why I'm really sitting here is because I figured that you knew, you're like pretty good... You're pretty good with this shit, like guessing and shit. You're like really good. And you even tweeted out, "When the CEO's blinded by the glow, it's different." I believe you did that?
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay, now with that being said, I did tweet that.
Pusha T: With that being said, you know that means you know, if you understood the line, you know I've been disgruntled internally for a minute that ain't that ain't... That's because there is no help.
Joe Budden Podcast: I thought... Yeah, I thought that was such a... I will say no, you know, I thought that was such a pound.
Pusha T: Don't tell me, but it's... It's so powerful. It's so powerful of a bar for you to say it and exit. And you never hear it again. Just on that specific record.
Joe Budden Podcast: Real quick, it was... It said a lot by saying so little.
Pusha T: Right. Unacceptable.
Joe Budden Podcast: Why it's not acceptable?
Pusha T: Okay, because... And I'll tell you why. It's for the... For the exact reason that you're saying, Push. If we weren't speaking about such a male dominant competitive sport right now, let's... Let's sub us all out and put us in a nail shop and make us all women.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, I'm cool. Let's see where this one goes.
Pusha T: It's going... It's going to where Mal's question that he asked earlier. Every would hear it and say, y'all messy. Y'all messy. Like all of the intermingling of the relationships is messy.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, no, no, they are.
Pusha T: With that... I'm not, I don't do that. I don't... I'm not neutral in nothing. I'm about one thing. I'm about Good. I work at Good. I'm about Good. Period. That's it. I'm about Good and I'm about my pride. That's what I'm about. Okay, now you know, I got... We got off... I mean...
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, please go back.
Pusha T: Okay, so you know, let's... Let's get to the just not being true. In... In... Like I said, in Drake's mind, one plus one probably equals two. Totally not true, my nigga. Totally not what it is. Not what happened. Not where the information came from.
Joe Budden Podcast: But you do understand how it could be perceived that... Perceived that way, especially...
Pusha T: Yes, yes. And let me tell you why. Yes, not only... Not only because of his visit, his trip, but because tweeted apologies, because other members and affiliates doing Rolling Stone interviews. When that one narrative is already out there, people take it as the gospel. Drake is a big artist. When he feels or says something in a certain way, they'll take that. They'll... And then without... Without silence, because be mindful, I haven't said a word since I dropped it.
Joe Budden Podcast: You didn't have to.
Pusha T: No, listen, no, no, no. But, but, but like he dropped it during my album release. He dropped it during my album release, my press run. We cut my press run short because we felt like, yo, the album was cracked. We gotta... And then I gotta come talk about this because the day after comes the joint. So we even cut the joint. We even cut the... The talk short because couldn't nobody get past that, couldn't nobody get past that. And you know what I'm saying, you're not telling me that you and your team did not plan for that?
Joe Budden Podcast: Bro.
Pusha T: Y'all thought y'all was just gonna say put y'all out and that was gonna be the end?
Joe Budden Podcast: Bro, I'm no... Listen. Well, come on. Not never that.
Pusha T: Okay, okay. But... But... But I am saying that, you know, it coming... It coming so fast off the heels of it during my press run, it's like, oh man, you know? Okay, we at it. We at it. Period, point blank.
Joe Budden Podcast: Did y'all see that little hand gesture he just did?
Pusha T: Yeah, I'm sorry. Period point blank. That still is there.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah. When the say we added and does that... Yeah, I've seen that before. It's muscle memory.
Pusha T: That's what we did. When... When they did that, we gripped up. That was it. But, you know, with... With that being said again and back to the show, back to the show and just addressing those things, please. The information came from 40. It didn't come from Kanye at all.
Okay, 40, 40, 40 is sleeping with a woman who begins to... You know, you know, he talks to her every... He talks to her daily. Five, six hours a day.
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, she must have a great personality.
Pusha T: Yeah, bro, come on. Listen, listen. Talks to a woman five, six hours a day, provides opportunity for... Provides... Provides opportunity for. He's a great guy. And... And you know, ultimately speaks about how he's disgruntled about certain things. Notoriety and in things involving... Involving Drake and in his career so on and so forth to this young lady.
Yes, with that... With that also came the fact that Drake has a child. With that also came the... The... The trip that everybody took to go see the child and bring them gifts and all you know all of this information. She divulged this information. She has a great personality.
That's where it came from. Now I never told nobody that. I never said that to anybody. And I never put that out there because the way I see it, it was so much power and silence, number one. Then number two, I was being spiteful. Being spiteful.
Joe Budden Podcast: You got... You know, you apologize, and what are you for, sir? You never... You didn't give me nothing. You didn't give me anything in regards to you know, aiding in this... In this drama. Nothing.
Pusha T: Did he apologize to...
Joe Budden Podcast: Push? No, I don't think... I don't think you was... No, no, no, no, no. Ye apologizing?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh yeah, God, I was confused. I'm sorry. What are you apologizing about?
Pusha T: Okay, you shouldn't have done that nine times, ten. I mean, on top of that, there shouldn't have been interviews being done because of that, you know what I'm saying? Because of all of that right there. Now dude thinks what he thinks. We got to wear that because I'm... It's not coming out till it's beneficial to me.
Only reason it's coming out now, only reason I'm here now, is... But for real, for real is because he was so passionate about the whole MS thing. And you know, they did the backlight and they put the spotlight on his face and when you said, "My friend..." Yeah, yeah, it's well produced.
Joe Budden Podcast: Better than this. I thought well produced. Shut up, Roy. Edit that out. But your friend is the reason why.
Pusha T: That's why. Oh, the irony. That's how... That's how it came about. That's how that information... That narrative gotta die. Like I'm... Like I'm... Listen, it needs to die. It's done. That narrative is done.
Now on top of that, man, it's like I let... I let them run with all these narratives. I listen, even the... Even the Jay Prince thing, bro. I don't know Jay Prince. I don't know Jay Prince. You know, he did a whole book tour on the back of... On the back of like, yo, I squash this on and so forth.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah.
Pusha T: My manager spoke to him, most respectful guy in the world. Nothing. I mean, like you know. All these false narratives are fueling just you know, and covering up. Bro, we just had a battle, bro. And you came up on the short end of the stick of it. That was it. That was it.
Joe Budden Podcast: It. Hmm. Is that true?
Pusha T: What do you mean?
Joe Budden Podcast: As far as the battle, you feel like he came up on the short end?
Pusha T: Yeah, of course. I mean, listen. Let me tell you something. Is there a world that exists where you would say otherwise?
Joe Budden Podcast: No, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you. No, not... Not for me.
Pusha T: Got it. Not for me at all.
Joe Budden Podcast: Got it. You gotta think and let me just tell you how... Like how I really feel about that.
Pusha T: Bro, it's been... I've been... To me I've been stacking up W's for a minute in regards to this. Like putting out the artwork and you giving a whole dissertation in your notes and posting that. That was a W to me. Jay Prince coming in, stepping in, having to say this... That's a W to me. That's a W to me. That's nobody's talking for me. Are you bugging? Nobody.
Joe Budden Podcast: What?
Pusha T: Listen, the shots thrown at Ye after the fact is a W for me.
Joe Budden Podcast: Why are you way over there?
Pusha T: I think we... We talked about that like... Yeah, we discussed that like... Like yo, you... Like... Like in all honesty and this is all... This is all in silence, bro. Like nothing else has been... Nothing else was said about it. Like this is what you're doing all of this... Coming... Coming going to sit with LeBron, going to sit with LeBron and Maverick four months later talking about this. That's a W for me.
Joe Budden Podcast: We don't know when it was recorded.
Pusha T: What? Three months later? I don't know. I don't know what... Later.
Joe Budden Podcast: You know television works.
Pusha T: Listen, okay, you're right. All right, so listen, I... The line not coming out...
Joe Budden Podcast: The... Let's talk about that because I was... That really like a thing where he had an Adidas line coming out?
Pusha T: Of course. Okay. Of course it was. That's the name of it. Okay? She knew all of this. She divulged all of this information. I didn't get it from him or them. That's all... That's all it was.
This... All right, so let's just play a quick game. Okay? This... This... This young lady is not from the east coast.
Joe Budden Podcast: I don't know where the hell she from.
Pusha T: He know. He listen, he gonna see this and know, bruh. I'm sorry. Y'all can... He gonna see this and know, bruh. He gonna know.
Joe Budden Podcast: Ma, don't I tell you all the time?
Pusha T: It's always pillow talking, pillow talking kills everybody. Comes down to the girl. Pillow talking kills everybody. He gonna see this. He gotta keep... He gonna... Listen, they're gonna look at him. He's... He gotta keep that live face on. Bro, he's gonna have to keep... He ain't... He... He's not gonna admit to it probably to them. He gotta keep that face on. They gonna know. He knows exactly who this is. He knows exactly what I'm talking about right now. He's going to... Hey, all right, listen, I could... Listen, I couldn't live with myself without telling. I'm sorry. I couldn't live with myself without him knowing this and him having... I need him to... He has to live with this.
Joe Budden Podcast: Can we pause this convo so I could just ask everybody where they stand on pillow talking? I don't speak in the bedroom at all.
Pusha T: Well, you haven't had a girlfriend in therapy. So you have to... You have to... Feel close to... I might tell you anything. I might tell you anything I want to say at the time. I'm not going to talk about... I don't know how did they... I love talking about the homies with my girl. That's the best person to talk to about your homies.
Joe Budden Podcast: Fuck no. Hell no. No. She got to be an actual girl. Damn, is this me again?
Pusha T: It's just you.
Joe Budden Podcast: It's definitely just you. Rory has definitely spoken to Sam about her.
Pusha T: What the fuck are you talking about?
Joe Budden Podcast: I hate when he does that. About like y'all personal business?
Pusha T: Fuck no.
Joe Budden Podcast: Like shit that the world can see.
Pusha T: Yeah, we'll laugh at y'all together. We don't need to argue about that because that's not really what I meant. What I meant was... In war.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yes, sir.
Pusha T: In war.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yes, sir.
Pusha T: Come strats with the women. Where do y'all stand on... Like, where would y'all fall if that were you?
Joe Budden Podcast: What do you mean?
Pusha T: If one of your enemies got some great information from a girl that I gave her...
Joe Budden Podcast: Damn, that sounds fabulous. He would have to... You know what he would have to do? He would have to... 40 is going to have to look at Drake the way Drake looked at LeBron and say, "Did I let you down?" And then Drake's going to have to, you know, say, "You're my brother. I wouldn't..."
Pusha T: Did you make that meme? Oh, did you make that meme?
Joe Budden Podcast: I saw a meme floating around.
Pusha T: No, I didn't do that. No, what I'm saying? Like, it's going to have to happen like that, bro. It's going to have to happen like that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Steven, you got some meme makers over there and good music.
Pusha T: But it's going to have to happen like that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you guys think it was something a little funny with that part, right?
Pusha T: Come on.
Joe Budden Podcast: His voice was a little funny.
Pusha T: Bro. We talked about that when we watched it that night.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, you had the joke of the night, though. Because I went... I can't stop looking at that part now. Oh, when Drake snatched his phone so quick from LeBron?
Pusha T: Oh, yeah.
Joe Budden Podcast: It was pretty funny. He looked at the baby for four seconds and LeBron snatched... I mean, Drake snatched the phone. I was like, damn, my nigga.
Pusha T: Drake, what was in that phone?
Joe Budden Podcast: What you think? No, that was really, really funny. He snatched that phone quick. But anyway... Well, no, I have a quick question. Why do you think that woman was comfortable divulging that info to y'all?
Pusha T: Um, it wasn't that she was divulging it.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah. She divulged it with 40, she's having sex with... Telling her nigga. They talk five hours a day. No, no, no. I'm telling my bitches shit, too. Why did it come to... Yo, man. Fucking Aubrey. Why did it come to push? Not from 40. She's the middleman here.
Pusha T: Why did it come? Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't think that she would like him. I don't think that she cares for him. I wouldn't believe that.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yo, somebody got a beat because I feel like he got a record that he wanted to start right now. I wouldn't think that. I mean, I'm serious. So you think that it was just like... It's a joint?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay. I mean, you know, she didn't know. She didn't know that what she was doing. Right.
Pusha T: In all fairness.
Joe Budden Podcast: Right. She wasn't trying to kill nobody.
Pusha T: Mm-hmm.
Joe Budden Podcast: She wasn't?
Pusha T: Listen. How the fuck do you figure that? She handed the fucking one gun for the killer.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, no, no, no. But I understand what he's saying, though. Before, the war popped off. Yeah. Like, she wasn't doing that.
Pusha T: God, it's the hitman in you.
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean, hey, man. This nigga had some shit in that little hitman bag.
Pusha T: Nah. See, but that's my point, Push. When real niggas could tell that you had the itch, see how you did that little thing real quick? Like, real niggas could tell that there's just an itch as it pertains to this one concentrated area.
Pusha T: Bro, it's not...
Joe Budden Podcast: By somebody who keeps saying, fam, I'm cool. And we're from the same place. So when you're in the street, you know when a nigga... It's like, yo, it's cool. And you just seem to keep moving forward.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Joe Budden Podcast: I'm trying to look at this in fight boxing terms. And you are a nice guy. I don't know why you're saying this, though. Like, I feel like we, you know, we've crossed that... You know, by the time we got to... There, we crossed lines.
Pusha T: We did, you know, and that's just what it was.
Joe Budden Podcast: Got it. I want to get back to, again. Well, what line do you think he crossed? Kanye's whole involvement in this.
Pusha T: Which one?
Joe Budden Podcast: Go ahead, bro. What line do you think he crossed?
Pusha T: I mean...
Joe Budden Podcast: Ah. If you pull that wife line out one more time...
Pusha T: What do you mean? He mentioned my wife. I got to kill a whole crew. It's always kill the whole crew. It's never not kill the whole crew, bro. Like, what... Like, I don't understand...
Joe Budden Podcast: Joe... See, that's the way I like it. Joe, but that's what I said. Joe, of all people should go. Like, you got to stop, though. Like, what do you mean? Like, there's no... There's a governor on the bar... Like, no, there's no governor on the bars, Joe. You just go.
Pusha T: But that's what I was saying, Parks. I said...
Joe Budden Podcast: And I said, I wish this nigga would just stop saying, yo, this was the line that did it. No, nigga. You just was... No, no, no, no, no. You was going. You was going.
Joe Budden Podcast: Without the wife line, is that The Story of Adidon coming out? Or however you pronounce that name?
Pusha T: Listen, I was going to go, period. Regardless. I was going to go, period. But the fact that... The fact that you put that wife line in it, it's just like... Man, it just made it great. Like, it just made it great for me. Personally.
Joe Budden Podcast: It's a blackout.
Pusha T: And the fact that you thought that that line... First of all, I see what you lay with. I see what you create with. I see what you walk with.
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, you're getting into your cerebral bed, right?
Pusha T: So, I don't want you actually saying my wife's name. I don't. Somebody might misconstrue that with you actually knowing her or something like that. I'm not with that. We're not going to play with that. Which is the same confusion that's going on currently with Kanye. Which, I ain't got nothing to do with nobody else's wife.
Joe Budden Podcast: Neither do I.
Pusha T: Neither do I.
Joe Budden Podcast: Right.
Pusha T: So, that alone is enough for me. Like, and you just... You know, again, you got to know who you're playing with. He is the biggest pop star in the game.
Joe Budden Podcast: That leads me to my next question. Doesn't the biggest person in the war get to make the rules?
Pusha T: How?
Joe Budden Podcast: Not in rap?
Pusha T: When did the best rapper decide the rules? Fucking let me un-retire.
Joe Budden Podcast: Well, not in rap. And what rule is he making up?
Pusha T: Going too far. That it was in bad taste.
Joe Budden Podcast: The bigger person gets to dictate the narrative.
Pusha T: You think so? I think the person that's willing to push it that far is the person that dictates that.
Joe Budden Podcast: All right. Tell me more.
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean, don't the fans make the narrative? But I guess the pop star would have more of the fans.
Pusha T: I mean... There's no rules in...
Joe Budden Podcast: Right.
Pusha T: Bro, I ain't no rules to this, bro. How I grew up, there wasn't.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, there is a rule. Write your rap. Rap changes all the time.
Pusha T: You got to do that, too. Like, that's a rule.
Joe Budden Podcast: Would you ghostwrite a diss for Kanye, then?
Pusha T: Yes. Tomorrow. Kanye's a producer to me, bro. He like Dr. Dre to me.
Joe Budden Podcast: But Drake writes.
Pusha T: He writes. He writes his music.
Joe Budden Podcast: He might have help here and there.
Pusha T: I mean, but...
Joe Budden Podcast: Get your fucking...
Pusha T: No, no, but that's a narrative that I think people took out of context because a couple of lines here and there. But Drake, he writes for other people. So it's like, how can people say Drake doesn't write when he writes for other people? He's written for other artists. He was writing for Kanye. Like, I don't understand.
Joe Budden Podcast: So I understand what Push is saying. Like, because in hip hop, once, you know, it comes out and somebody even gave you a line, it's like, oh, he don't write his own shit. It's like, no, but Drake writes.
Pusha T: But I don't, and I don't, what's he writing for Kanye? Those melodic things that Kanye does? Like, I'm not, I'm not talking about that. We're not discussing those, them crooning. We're not discussing that. We're talking about bars. I don't, I don't know that. I, I, listen, I mean, if you know it, bruh, then you know it. I don't know it. But what is he writing for Ye? I don't know what he's written for Ye. Y'all got to tell me what he's written for Ye that was, and I'm not saying that he hasn't. I'm just saying, tell me what it was. Because if you're telling me that he's doing melodic singing, whatever the case, like R&B writers do all the time, hey, bro, I'm with you. It happens. That's the game. That's what they do.
Joe Budden Podcast: They.
Pusha T: Right?
Joe Budden Podcast: I understand.
Pusha T: So, I mean, you know, I'm not, you know.
Joe Budden Podcast: Like I said, if you know different, then. I still feel like Kanye plays a bigger part in all of this.
Pusha T: Bruh. No. Listen. Go, go back to my big boy interview. I told y'all, I told him then. Bruh, this shit about real estate. Soon as Drake get on that fucking podium, what'd he say?
Joe Budden Podcast: 31st.
Pusha T: January, June 1st. All everything surrounded around my dates. That's what I said. Ain't no Kanye. Ain't no Kanye drama.
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean, now the bromance that they have going back and forth where, you know, they cool and then he shoot them in a verse or some shit.
Pusha T: That's weird, Push.
Joe Budden Podcast: Bruh. I don't understand it.
Pusha T: Bruh, that's them. That's them. I can't be in the studio when Drake's there. I can't. I'm not allowed.
Joe Budden Podcast: Listen, listen, listen.
Pusha T: When they go to Wyoming, I'm there from the 1st to the 7th.
Joe Budden Podcast: All right, all right. All right, I'll catch you. I'm going to catch you.
Pusha T: Next thing I hear, on the 8th, boom, Drake's here and he there for da-da-da-da-da. These many days. I don't know this. I'm not allowed. Everybody else can be there. I can't. Because I don't play neutral. I don't do that.
Joe Budden Podcast: You don't get to shoot my homeboys and so on and so forth. It's not happening. It's just not what I do. But I feel like Kanye should be taking that same stance.
Pusha T: But he don't do that. Like, everybody not built like me, bruh. Everybody not built like me. And you can't make people be built like you. You can't make people you you you can't that's a fact and I don't charge and this is the music industry this ain't the streets right so I don't I don't carry people like that I don't it's like it is what it is if when I was growing up if I wanted to go to the mall if you couldn't fight you couldn't come to the mall with me we could come back home and play ball all day oh you was that guy yes you can't come if you can't come to the mall if you if you can't fight you can't come to the mall with me because you're gonna run i'm gonna get jumped you're gonna run and i'm gonna hate you forever i don't want to hate you forever i love you you're great
Joe Budden Podcast: I gotta tell you this guy's a logical guy. Yeah no I'm no joe I'm yes man don't point at me I'm not I'm not in this I wouldn't sit with nobody else but I don't know why but I because because everybody else gonna be it's dumb everybody else is stupid to me bruh
Pusha T: Right and that's how I really think about motherfuckers man motherfuckers is dumb they fall and when it come to this rap shit like I need I need penman I need motherfuckers who love this shit I don't care who you like bruh like it's fine I like I probably like what you like right you that means nothing you do not like I'm sure I like what he like I've seen him I've seen him bro I already know I I know yeah he be jammed he be getting loose to some shit come on man like that ain't what it is
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh wait that nigga push research thus yeah yeah shit it's not that man
Pusha T: Bar you niggas down I'm scared of niggas do research nah but you know I mean I understand what you understand what you're saying this whole shit is about truth like this this whole like and and just you know the narrative is the narrative was wrong the shit was just wrong shit was all wrong but but the reason it's it's like the gift that keeps on giving because his ego is fucked up not mine his ego is fucked up bro like why are we talking about this shit four months later why why
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah you ain't heard me say one oh bro well because the shop came out right so that kind of
Pusha T: But listen but listen he's who the fuck he is that don't gotta come out if he say don't put it out
Joe Budden Podcast: But wait now kanye addressed him under the train station kanye's addressed him a few times in his little minute I think a lot of this is going on what'd you say kanye been getting dissed all summer by him
Pusha T: That's that's true yeah but do you think it's just saying it's towards yay more than you though because i feel like all on it all on scorpion i don't care all his interviews i don't care i don't care i'm trying to find some emotion in this guy like i don't know like i can't answer that question but i don't like for me that that shit don't work like that i see red all i see is red i'm gonna let i'm gonna see red and everybody else can see what they see everybody else can talk and finesse through they way way through it i'm not doing that
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah you got
Pusha T: I'm not talking about it this shit was deep this shit was deep for me this shit was deep like this shit this shit was a real fucking thing this wasn't this wasn't like first of all as much as you want to discount it you did say my wife's name i don't play that shit i really don't bruh i don't and it's fine but i mean on top of that even listen even the narrative of him and his research and all that shit bro when i tweeted out yo i tweeted out a hundred grand ain't enough to information for information that shit was real that shit was real that was not fake
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh no i i know i know
Pusha T: I don't know if you do I know I don't know if you do no i know i don't know if you do but like this shit is so real that like i know how this goes this shit is so real that like you know people who were close and near and dear to me are aiding and helping him do this shit and i'm like that shit is fucking that it is so whack to me man it's this woman man this woman she's worked on every album of mine every album always do back to the woman
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah no no no listen
Pusha T: She's worked on every project i've ever had every project i've had she worked on my adidas campaigns everything you know just to give you the story of how how this shit went i'm on my way to fucking wyoming we're on our way to wyoming listening to listening to yay album me in the car get a call from a old friend from la yo somebody just hit me up talking about a hundred grand you know for information on you so on and so forth um you know and the wild part about it is you know it's it's this woman this girl up there her name is cap you know cap don't you like don't y'all rock with each other like that and i'm like nah whatever hung up the phone knew damn well it was the truth because shouldn't nobody know this man ever like in in conjunction with me in 2018 2001 and 2 yes not now boom get over there get to wyoming right get to fucking wyoming listen have the listening whatever the case may be get back to my room check my dms home no my homeboy from virginia yo you need to call me in the morning he's not even my homeboy we had a matter of fact give me the real story me and him had an issue rap crew virginia rap crew versus us whatever the case may be we had an issue um you know speak to him the next morning he's like yo they offering a hundred grand for information on you blah blah blah blah i'm gonna put you on the phone with my man because he was actually on the phone with him yo it's this lady named cap such such you know so and so i was like whoa like bro they really they go above and beyond
Joe Budden Podcast: Which is why 100 let me just i do believe him when he says he went and made a diss track that was full of some shit and he doesn't he doesn't say that he doesn't say that uh as if it's directed toward you again it sounds like it sounds like he went and found some shit out about what he said in shop it was for push and yay
Pusha T: Well he should apologize he should apologize to one of the one of us and not me he's wrong for one he's wrong for one one he's wrong for the second one it will wear it all this guy'll wear it what's up the other one he wrong for that one he dead fucking wrong and that's what's crazy when you say this guy a weird at meaning yourself does that fall on push the man or does that fall on under your president uh responsibility
Pusha T: No president responsibility that's not that don't have nothing to do with that that just that has to do with the back and forth like i like what i don't like that's part of the narrative i don't like either i don't like these threatening you know oh i made this record that was gonna injure no you fucking didn't
Joe Budden Podcast: You believe that
Pusha T: I don't believe that
Joe Budden Podcast: No i said i believe he had recorded a record not that it was career ending i do believe he recorded something i mean
Pusha T: Well you know what i'm putting it like that is better putting it like that is better we're rappers we would record something we record references we ideas down say that but all of that extra because you wouldn't spare me for what i for what i've done you wouldn't spare me who's sparing me for what
Joe Budden Podcast: But i always felt like when that narrative came out that it was bogus that it was like oh you know it's gonna go too far careers can be ended i never believe that this is rap both of y'all solidified and y'all and y'all crap and nobody's career was gonna be ended but i i always felt that that was bullshit
Pusha T: Listen i didn't think nobody's career was gonna end over this bro he he spoke about like you know what it is it's like man imagine now my mind said i'm looking at the shot i'm like damn man what if my mom is watching the shot right now right she may think that like i'm in danger or some shit like now she knows her son but she also
Joe Budden Podcast: It's older he could have left out that little one spicy line come on that i won't mention it let's not even i'm not let's not but when i heard it i was like that didn't need to be there that says there's some anger that's not because we don't this nigga
Pusha T: Wish we don't
Joe Budden Podcast: Well what are you saying is true we don't i agree what are you saying is true we don't like but but but i'm but i'm saying like i'm just looking at it and i'm watching i'm like man somebody may think that i'm in danger somebody may think that oh you know there is some crazy he did this crazy research in which he did and let me tell you even about that that that that research didn't didn't come back with nothing as a matter of fact they taped the conversations and gave them to me
Joe Budden Podcast: Let me just play them if you want when all this stuff was happening because i got them
Pusha T: But all this extra fucking like i don't like that joke you know what it is i can't like i don't i just don't want niggas acting like they got one up on me or like or their money or their popularity runs me like no bro like this ain't about this this shit is some rap shit yeah like it's some rap shit like this ain't popularity this ain't money this ain't nothing like it's it's what it is
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you feel like guys who who don't write 100 of their rhymes can participate in these types of events like when it's gloves 2018 they can do whatever they want nobody cares nobody cares sometimes you got to change the silhouette who said they didn't like Daytona because it was seven songs who had the issue
Pusha T: Probably me
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah you definitely had the issue
Pusha T: I'm always i'm always on the side of what the artist it was it was it was a good it was a real good album but i wanted i felt like it could have been more
Joe Budden Podcast: I feel you but like what i was about to say was did you want it more than seven
Pusha T: I did i did i did but what i was
Joe Budden Podcast: So in that case yes i'd have a problem with it being seven because i know the artist wants to give me more music and then the producer is saying no because i had this big scheme with all my other artists facts that's where i would be upset right get him right
Pusha T: No no no no listen very listen he's very right and i've said it numerous times that i wanted more than seven tones sometimes you do have to change the silhouette though bruh like i feel like for what it is that we do joe in 2018 as far as bar fest rap fest chop shit the fuck up niggas niggas is getting barred up we're competing i'm trying to shed that image
Joe Budden Podcast: Let me like with that with that with that in mind you know and what we're competing against in 2018 you know the the the fucking the uh everybody's add songs are a minute and 59 seconds of repetition and we coming in barred the fuck up uh three verses that are like bro rest in peace of three verses
Pusha T: Yeah rest in peace that shit don't happen no more when's the last time you heard a third verse but i'm just saying like it was just your button right right but it was a 72 you know 224 it was whatever however you want to cut it down i'm not mad at the new structure of rap
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh no no no no i'm not mad at that because it's a lot of dope records like travis like when they go into a whole different beat in the record i like shit like that
Pusha T: No that's different we like it too sometimes you know and and i had to be open to that you i feel like you know changing the silhouette changing the silhouette of of of uh changing the silhouette in regard to my album seven songs 20 something minutes you know to compete and then competing with everything else that's going out there 25 songs of repetition yo i mean we we have to do something like it has to be some level of you know uh how am i trying to say this sort of to to to try to
Joe Budden Podcast: A middle ground
Pusha T: Yeah middle ground with with you know i'm saying with competing with what's going on like not to use the word relevant but stay with the times right more or less right and doing what you do yeah like doing what it is that i do because that's one thing i don't do the space for the gentleman that he's referring to is seemingly shrinking the middle class the middle classes this ain't even the middle class the people that is into bars it's just
Joe Budden Podcast: How is that as a as an executive of a label dealing with wanting to do bars yourself musically and liking music bars yeah bars but having to get shit that's gonna sell in 2018
Pusha T: I mean i listen i'm for me it doesn't matter i made daytona true like the games we play i play that every day every nine times a day that's what i want i just want to hear the shit i you know i want to hear that shit right like hope you're streaming it on spotify it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't matter and you can stream it right there on daytona on spotify right now
Joe Budden Podcast: Speaking of before we get into this i have a read you know what you was throwing shots at the way i was reading that one day trying to figure your reading was a little shaky bro uh every tuesday at 10 9 central a new reality series called hustling brooklyn is all new on bet and if you respect the grind and reject that nine to five life then trust me this show's for you nine of bk's finest go hard for their dreams while they negotiate plenty of relationship drama catch the new chapter of hustling brooklyn tuesdays at 10 9 central on bet for extras and exclusives don't forget to visit bet.com
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay back to daytona yes and the length of it yep well who was saying what who had who had a question
Pusha T: No i was just saying that i wasn't a fan of the seven songs i mean i kind of want to talk about may and june 2018 period okay one because obviously you were the first one that set the standard right and to me everything felt super rushed afterwards and you're the president right so all those matter to you right do you feel is mismanaged
Pusha T: Um i feel like when you say rushed um you're right you're very correct with that super rushed now when it comes to when it comes to daytona daytona daytona wasn't rushed wasn't as rushed and i i don't put a lot of my faith in anybody over there in regard to my project like i sit in on everything like for example versus be wrong positioning everything be wrong if i leave timing it's so timing everything and and and you know it's um that's something that i'm going to be there for right not everybody is there for that not everybody does that every a lot of people will you know um you know a lot of people you know think that um they can just leave it that you know they can just leave it in the hands of yay and everybody else and i feel like uh you know tiana had a big had a big issue you know i'm saying and um i had a big issue with her i was with her we'll get into that we we should
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean well before we talk the time and stuff do you think the example there would be naz's album um to me again i wasn't there it felt like he sent a bunch of acapellas he didn't and yay just put some beats behind it he didn't feel like a naz album to me
Pusha T: He was he was there bro that's the thing we was we was recording same time we was recording same time
Joe Budden Podcast: How was it being in wyoming um and recording there right like inspiration like it's a rapper like looking at
Pusha T: I'm not you know i'm not really into the like inspiration you can rap idea you can do your thing yeah like wyoming is actually really fucking good in regard to just being in the middle of nowhere and you have nothing else to do but make music but rap and it like y'all become the best of friends everybody's great like it's you know it's like
Joe Budden Podcast: Where'd you eat at
Pusha T: Um a uh a barbecue pit a barbecue pit like up the street and nasty
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah this is wild like
Pusha T: No no no it's not like it's um like where's the closest roll up nigga looking for virginia soul food in wyoming
Joe Budden Podcast: No yeah you'll find none of that there's no corner store none of that none of that yo none of that
Pusha T: But um yeah i you know wyoming is um we all we've always done this it's hawaii dark twisted it's it's always in seclusion always
Joe Budden Podcast: So seems like all of you are uh seems like all of the good music acts are pretty distant nowadays that's each other all that little fake camaraderie we got at the cypher in 2011 whenever that was i don't remember
Pusha T: Well i think i like the suits i think the focus i think the focus was more music then i feel like i feel like the focus was more music and with yay being at the helm of it being about music like yay's everywhere can it be about music still if he's elsewhere um could cruel summer happen more 2019 more yeah if he yeah if he's if listen if he's dialed in
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah why does everything live and die with him when it comes
Pusha T: So what when it when it when it comes when it comes to his label when it comes to it being his label and when it comes to him producing like he wants to like this whole this whole five album thing wasn't a five album thing it didn't start like that it was like yo push i want to work on i want to do you out well i i did i did an album i did an album he basically a and r'd the album that's how that's how it usually goes i go collect beats i put down verses i go back to him he be like oh i fuck with that i don't fuck with that i came back i'm like listen i think i got my album i need a couple more whatever whatever whatever he listened to it we rocked out for a whole day drove around cool next day he calls me he says yo i think i can do your album better like just me personally like i don't want to use such and such piece of whoever i mean when you let's go you know what i'm saying let's go do it
Pusha T: Um i was of course i was like fuck man like i'm ready come on now like but at the same time it's like and a lot of shit was going on with him too he was like man you know want to sort of look at this shit sort of like therapy and him getting back into the music shit i was like that's this this is where this is where me and you click at yo me and push have so many different similarities this is fucking banana listen man i'm here for a reason bro so you know with that with that being the case as we found my album we didn't even find my album we you know we're out there he got six thousand records like six thousand records he going through samples after sample after sample i'm there this shit's expensive as fuck it's fuck i ain't getting it's not mine he fine he finds pushes royce he he finds tiana
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah that's my man
Pusha T: Yeah and that's that's what that's where my beef is and i guess that's where the other good music acts that's where their beef is too pushes royce and what i mean by that is royce is next to em royce can probably have some conversations with em that other people can't
Joe Budden Podcast: Right so when i'm listening to push talk and i know i know kanye is well documented as being a huge push fan but as a before push ever got there but listening to push it sounds like him and yay's relationship is in a just in a different space than some of the other acts and for me is that is that
Pusha T: Act i mean well i've been through it i would feel a way about it right as an artist how can you not i felt the way about it when i've watched you do that little interview talking about tiana when you was like she might have demoitis i was like the fucking nerve will push
Joe Budden Podcast: What do you mean though she does what's wrong with that we all have demoitis it's a very common thing you don't have demoitis
Pusha T: He does you got to yeah it's a little different though it's a little different
Joe Budden Podcast: My demoitis pre shady interscope the record would end up sounding pretty close to the demo because you're creating it to sound like however you want to create it you're not creating it to hand it to someone
Pusha T: Right right and you're also but you also got to sit in when you hand too you can't hand and turn away i don't have is everybody and that's that's my question
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah i don't you gotta you gotta be a that is my question that's what i'm asking you push are you the only person afforded that luxury because of your relationship oh you can be there if you want to take that type of time with your
Pusha T: What of course you can
Joe Budden Podcast: I don't believe you
Pusha T: Listen he works off energy he works off energy he works off energy anyway that's all listen if if there is no energy you ain't get nothing anyway he only works off energy.
Joe Budden Podcast: All of this would affect me if I'm an artist sign.
Pusha T: Listen man, that's just how it goes and I ain't even gonna hold you. Look, the biggest thing with me working with him is beating him. Like as soon as he gives me a beat, I'm on top of that shit just so I can get it done. At least get he needs to hear something. It ain't even going nowhere just off of him, it's off of you and him. It's not going anywhere. And trust me, I'm from the Neptune school. Pharrell is such a... I mean you know, put your verses in chaos, put your verses in chaos man. Like that's it, him and Chad put your verses in chaos.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's your process and y'all are great at that. Do you think Teyana's process was catered to... at what point is it your job to fucking cater to the act? I thought that's what all labels...
Pusha T: I feel like what I was gonna say before, I mean in getting into that, we weren't even going—we were going out there for my album. We get to... you know getting into that, I'm out there for a long time. We found Teyana's album first. Listen, she didn't—it won't—no, she didn't have one. We just in creation and in finding records, you know going through samples. Before we knew it, it was five records and he was like, "Yo this Teyana whole album. Call her, tell her we got it. Boom. Let's find some people to do whatever. Boom, boom, knock it out, get it done."
Joe Budden Podcast: Where did her marketing budget go?
Pusha T: I mean, I don't know. I... where did it go? I mean, just as another act on the label, right?
Joe Budden Podcast: Questions I would have. When I listen to your album, I can—that energy that you speak of, I can hear it, right? And on your last album, like yeah that's present on Push albums, you're right. That energy that you speak of with some other people... I would have a whole lot of fucking questions just about my situation. I would audit you niggas. I mean, you can't send me to Wyoming, fly these fucking nets, fly—yes jewels out and think that I'm about to do some numbers as an artist that needs to build their base. And as a Teyana fan, I was home waiting. I've been waiting for years. I was disappointed. I was really—I was extremely extremely...
Pusha T: Good though.
Joe Budden Podcast: I love her album. Like I'm listening to you I'm like, "No, no, we like it," but it's to Rory's point. Here's the difference: if you know the album that the artist was going to deliver—and I know Teyana, okay—and I knew that, alright, she ain't gonna keep this in for too long. We're gonna hear, we're gonna hear something about why this album sound like that because she was doing—she was doing—she was promoing records via Insta live and shit like that, right?
Pusha T: Push.
Joe Budden Podcast: When I tell you them shit sounded retarded... So you calling it demo-itis. That's where I take offense. That shit sounded ridiculous. The version that came after, I think the consensus would be...
Pusha T: Nah, nah, some of them shits we was hearing on the Instagram—I do know, I do know that Teyana had a couple sample issues, if I'm not mistaken.
Joe Budden Podcast: I could tell. I could tell she had... yeah, she had a few sample and listen, that's something else that comes along with the game, with working with him.
Pusha T: Yeah, you know I'm saying, like I think "Gonna Love Me" is her "Cranes in the Sky." If it's not two minutes long, if it's not two minutes long, that's her "Cranes in the Sky." "Gonna Love Me" is incredible, it's a beautiful song.
Joe Budden Podcast: Right. Why is Big Sean ducking all the smoke? I gotta ask you all the questions that you Good Music niggas duck.
Pusha T: What do you mean, why is he duck—I don't even know Sean.
Joe Budden Podcast: He ain't said Candy Man name.
Pusha T: I mean, am I off here? No, the nigga—niggas told Sean to say Candy Man.
Joe Budden Podcast: Hey, nigga out with Jhené. I think we need a new Sean album, man. A new Jhené album, and these niggas out pillow talking somewhere. No, I think one of you niggas have to answer for some of this.
Pusha T: No man, what do you mean? Like, I feel like, I feel like Sean... Listen, you know... he ain't said Candy Man.
Joe Budden Podcast: What are you talking about? I also think he's staying away because of everything that's going on with Kanye. Like, for you niggas over there to be so—because y'all up, y'all got bar niggas over there, right? Sean is a bar nigga for sure. Cyhi is a bar nigga for sure. Like, where's all the bar nigga tactics, bro?
Pusha T: Listen man, more—don't talk to me about Cyhi. I haven't said anything. Don't talk to me about it. Okay? Let's come on...
Joe Budden Podcast: What are you talking about? He can rap.
Pusha T: This is unacceptable, unacceptable.
Joe Budden Podcast: In what?
Pusha T: Everything. I'm now just all over the place. I'm listening... Go ahead.
Joe Budden Podcast: He's talking about how Kendrick has been daring him to say his name and you know, possibly throwing some little subs here and they've subbed back and forth. They've subbed back and forth, man. If y'all knock it off...
Pusha T: No, interviews.
Joe Budden Podcast: He subbed. For you niggas to be so great with these bars, and I do believe that Big Sean and Cyhi are both great with the bars, right? Why niggas be scared of the smoke? Get out of the street, nigga.
Pusha T: I don't know man. I mean, listen. I'm—first of all, I'm not gonna say either one of them is scared of the smoke. I'm not gonna say that. I'm gonna just say that I don't know what their—I don't know what their buttons are. No pun—no pun—no pun.
Joe Budden Podcast: That guy's slick. No pun. That guy's good, man. That's why he's the president. He subbed you on your own shit.
Pusha T: I don't know. I don't know. Like, I can't—I can't tell you. This—I do—you know—I know I do know of the issue. I didn't even know of the issue.
Joe Budden Podcast: You know there's no issue.
Pusha T: Yeah, there is no issue, right? But issue with anybody... I think Teyana would get bucked before anybody else over there, outside of this gentleman, obviously.
Joe Budden Podcast: Well, I already know Teyana get bucked. That's what I'm saying. Don't nobody need to tell me nothing about that shooter. She's great. Teyana might be your first call because all of y'all were signed at different times, right? So contracts differ, and I'm probably in a space where I'm pretty unfamiliar with what's going on currently with major labels. Do different contracts have different song minimums? I mean, song requirements?
Pusha T: Um, usually they're pretty standard. And when you say song requirements, you mean as in for the album?
Joe Budden Podcast: On the album. Usually 10 songs, back in the day it was you were only paid for 10 songs. We don't give a fuck what you do.
Pusha T: Right, over that. I don't know what that number is now. No, that probably still—that probably still is the case. But with all of the other—that number has to be different on the streaming...
Joe Budden Podcast: I would be—streaming, the fact that people are putting 30 songs, that with the streaming and...
Pusha T: And I, I feel like they're a bit lenient. I mean, I could—I could ask—I could ask my manager. They would have also—also the executive—actually, Steven, maybe that's the question that I should have—I should have for you because I just genuinely want to know the answer. Do different artists have different...
Joe Budden Podcast: It's called controlled composition clause.
Pusha T: Everyone's different is what Steven said, but...
Joe Budden Podcast: No, no, he's talking about songs. We know contracts are different.
Pusha T: No, I understand exactly what the fuck that smart nigga just said.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yes.
Pusha T: Hey, the debt—the devil is always in the details. I understand exactly what he just said.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay, that answers a lot. I'm leaving that. Now listen, you know I had the corny question before, right, when I was thinking of—well, what am I asking Push about this fucking—pushing Drake shit because I'm—I'm over it. I don't know why Drake was on it. I said, "Damn, I could ask that corny question of lives. Is there an avenue for reconciliation?" But the further I thought about it, I only—the selfish fan of me, I only want reconciliation when there's a duet that I want to hear. Like, I wanted Drake and Meek to make amends because I want to hear Drake and Meek songs. I have no desire to hear a Drake and Push record, I'll be honest with you.
Pusha T: Facts.
Joe Budden Podcast: So if you niggas never piece it up, I'm cool. That's fine. I just don't really understand, but I mean, I guess I don't have to listen.
Pusha T: No, I wouldn't want to hear Drake...
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, I wouldn't mind. How the fuck would you want to hear Drake and Push record?
Pusha T: Ilk, only—only because I would—I didn't think that I would want to hear before I heard it, I wouldn't jumped out to hear Drake and Ross record. I wouldn't—I wouldn't jump...
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, I'm not bad, and they have great records together.
Pusha T: "Lord Knows" is probably one of my favorite records ever. So I'm not—I don't know if Drake and Push can make a record like that, but I would want to hear it. I think he or Drake crooning on some of that fucking hard...
Joe Budden Podcast: No, it wasn't—it wasn't crooning.
Pusha T: I'm sure it wasn't crooning.
Joe Budden Podcast: He would rap on it.
Pusha T: Yeah, I was thinking "Aston Martin..."
Joe Budden Podcast: Nah, it wasn't crooning on "Lord Knows."
Pusha T: So I—I know he was—he was stealing out of a young lady's purse on "Lord Knows."
Joe Budden Podcast: There's nothing wrong with that. I'm from that era.
Pusha T: You are not—you are not—you're not gonna shame angel dust and big up—and big up going in a chick's purse.
Joe Budden Podcast: I'm from that—I'm from that...
Pusha T: Yeah, I know. I was from the wild era. I was from the wild era. It's cool.
Joe Budden Podcast: Who knew Push did such a great Mase impersonation?
Pusha T: Yo, yo, that's like—yeah, that's a little weird, man.
Joe Budden Podcast: I thought that was amazing, like the record.
Pusha T: Why did you do that?
Joe Budden Podcast: Because—because Mase is one of the greats.
Pusha T: I know.
Joe Budden Podcast: I thought that was amazing. I thought it was a feature. It was creepy. It was creepy. It threw me off. Why can you do such a great Mase impersonation?
Pusha T: I wanted it to be a single. I really did, like you know. I feel like, um, I don't make singles. Like, I don't—I don't make shit like that, really. And I felt like that was one time where, like, it was some—it was some quirky shit, but it was some—it was cool enough. I felt cool doing it. I didn't care. It was me, it was me paying homage at the same time. I thought it came out dope, and people didn't fuck with it. That shit pissed me off.
Joe Budden Podcast: I think most people believe—myself, people—I thought it was...
Pusha T: I don't think Push gives himself enough credit, man. I don't think you give yourself enough credit.
Joe Budden Podcast: What do you mean?
Pusha T: It's fine. It's crazy. Why you say that?
Joe Budden Podcast: Listen, as the guy that's been tagged as the one hit wonder, Push has made big records.
Pusha T: That's true. That's true. He has been on—that's a little bit of a—bunch of huge records and a really big—you one of the few bar niggas that can get on stage and do a set with them fucking mainstream raps.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, yeah, because you did Made in America. I came on this podcast and I said, "Yo, I forgot that Push could really do a whole set of hit records." And when I take it further—and when I take it further than that...
Pusha T: Don't move. What are you talking about?
Joe Budden Podcast: Jingle. No, no, I think they're good. No, I think I do good records. I'm saying that they're like, when you say singles—singles, you know, that's charting, that's—that's making—you don't play the game. Well, I mean, you don't play that game. He doesn't seek out to play the game. If it works, it works.
Pusha T: Yeah, if it works, it works. Okay, that's a fact.
Joe Budden Podcast: But you know what's funny? The minimalist...
Pusha T: We all do. Push, I do. Like, real shit. I mean, you—I want people to know that, like, I—I do want shit like that, but you're not gonna force it.
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh no, no, no, you can't do that.
Pusha T: Right, a lot of people do. Like, "Mr. Me Too" didn't feel like a force. It felt like a—a clip single.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, it was a hit. "Mr. Me Too" or "Grinding", things of an unorthodox nature that actually work—that's what I... I mean, you know, can you—I would like to—can you tell me why? And I want to—I want to attack this because this is a common theme I'm saying now. Can you tell me why rap niggas even get involved in a game, knowing what it's driven by, when we're not willing to participate, really?
Pusha T: Man, I mean, because they see the perks. They see the perks, and they think that—and—and every rap—every rap nigga think he's that good that it's gonna just, you know, he's gonna jump over the moon.
Joe Budden Podcast: Knowing what you know now, would you have gotten into music?
Pusha T: For sure, for sure. Music affords me—this is afforded me so much shit, and it's taking care of so many fucking people that I'm around. Hell yeah, that—that—that alone is enough for me.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you have children?
Pusha T: No.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you want children?
Pusha T: Yes.
Joe Budden Podcast: Near future?
Pusha T: Well, you married, so I'm assuming you're having...
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, very, very soon. If your child—I asked you this right, because recently, and I don't know how this has been coming up with me, but you know, my kid is into music, okay? Um, for me, that's the same as my kid coming to me saying he's in the football. You hate—like, I'd hate it, and I have that—that—that conflict inside of me that says, are you allowed to feel like that? Like, music has afforded you so much?
Pusha T: I know. How could you feel like that?
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, because you know, like, if you know the lowest lows of it—if you was in your kid right now, you would tell you, "My nigga, sunk my dick."
Pusha T: If somebody came to me at 17 and it's whack, because if you were a doctor and your kid wanted to be a doctor, you'd be like, "Oh, I'll go ahead."
Joe Budden Podcast: Something else that was, you know, anything else successful. Like, you know, anything else successful, you'd be like, "Go do it, go do it, go do it."
Pusha T: How you know? I feel you, though. I wouldn't tell my kid go be in music. I—I'd be like—I would definitely support them, but reluctantly. And I would go in my room and, like, beat on the bed or some shit. Be pissed, I would. But I wouldn't do it in front of them because I know what that's like, too. I mean, I grew up at a time where music—what the hell you mean you're doing—me? Get the fuck—right, like that attitude was ringing off in my home, period. Like, I wouldn't do that. But yeah, man, I'm not—I'm not—I'm—yeah, I—I can't say. They would have to show me a certain amount of drive, a certain amount of just dedication. They would have to show me so much.
Joe Budden Podcast: I would be cool if my kid was like, wanted to be a musician. Like, if they told me they just writing raps, I'd be like... But if they want to pick up an instrument and they really want to get to that side of music...
Pusha T: That's still whack. That's still whack for us. Like, we're whack for that. We are whack for that.
Joe Budden Podcast: I agree.
Pusha T: Yeah, we're whack for that. I agree.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, we're whack. But—but if your kid is just coming to you with lyrics, it's like—and if they trash, it's like, "All right, my kid might not"—I mean, you know. But if he picking up a guitar, he picking up—he playing piano, drums, it's like...
Pusha T: Yeah, exactly. You can have a long career doing—he can turn the trash around, bro.
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean, trash—but if you look at the percentages, to your doctor point, the amount of people that go into med school and become doctors is way higher than the people that make a mixtape and become successful at rap. There's not a high percentage of success rates with rappers.
Pusha T: I feel you, man, but we—listen, we made it, and you can't shoot people down.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's a fact. You can't shoot nobody.
Pusha T: You know, I'm just thinking from a father's perspective, being worried about their future. But you can't do that either. Like, you know, you're right.
Joe Budden Podcast: Now, let me tell you something. I'm not gonna tell my kid to play football. I'm not with that. I can't do that. I can't—I would like—I don't—I feel like the damage is like, that's some shit we're gonna find out—we're—we're finding out about it now.
Pusha T: Yeah, I feel like—yeah, you know, some—some shit gonna unveil itself real soon.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you use EarPods?
Pusha T: Yes.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yo, you know, I just found out those are $150, and I thought they came with the new phone. They don't.
Pusha T: I ask—I ask you that because in—in regards of football, you say there's damage that we won't know is being done until much later on, right?
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, man. So I was getting a haircut—don't do this. I was getting a haircut, and the barber turned on the little tiny electric shaver thing that's wireless. And at the same time, I wanted to microwave my coffee. So I got up, I put my coffee in the microwave. He put the shit on. I was also playing music on the Bluetooth. And as soon as the microwave cut on, everything stopped. And I was amazed by it. I was like—I kept doing it, and I kept getting the same exact result. And the barber was saying—and this was Jose, shout out to Jose—the barber was saying, "Uh, yeah, there's studies on all of these different waves and exactly what they do." He said, "Which is why I'm surprised so many people are wearing the EarPods, because we have studies that show that certain waves do cause cancer and do cause other, you know, they cause some shit." And here we are with our human stupid asses putting this technology in our ears, and we won't know the effects that it's going to have until much, much, much later on, yet we willingly do it as a—as a people.
Pusha T: I mean, Bluetooth earphones—they've been saying that about cell phones since—Bluetooth's been around for a while.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's interesting, coming from the two niggas that smoke cigarettes.
Pusha T: Mom, I'm gonna die. We all are.
Joe Budden Podcast: In there? I'm gonna die first. I'm gonna die first.
Pusha T: What's the—Chris Rock? A crackhead'll be like, "Yo, you know red meat'll kill you."
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, my friends don't even see all the subtle changes I make to prepare for the afterlife. And right in front of their eyes, like, I'm serious when I say you're not invited.
Pusha T: You're not invited to my funeral.
Joe Budden Podcast: Mal, sorry. Okay, thank you. Now, I hate to get morbid... Oh, should I play "Outstanding"? No, not yet. Back to Push. Push, so—and this is a broad—this is a fairly simple question, but I'd like to know the answer. How did you even end up with this title as president of Good Music? I don't—I always like—this fucking rapping-ass nigga can't have a title?
Pusha T: No. Um, listen, it was simple as—um, simple as just, you know, a lot of—a lot of our conversations and sessions—I mean, a lot of our sessions start with conversations. Um, it always starts with, "What's hot? Who's hot?" You know, that's what our whole shit is about. "Okay, bring that in," and then, you know, "Let him hear that," you know? And then he starts competing with these things. Um, that's just what we do. Like, that's just what it is. And I—and I feel like my rapport with everybody at Good, on top of my opinion, there's always like, you know, I—I'm not anti, but I always play devil's advocate. I feel like, you know, he—he felt that—um, I would bring a sense, you know, a bit more order to the situation.
Joe Budden Podcast: Okay. Okay.
Pusha T: And and respect, like, you know, we got a mutual—like, I'm cool. I'm actually cool with all of them. Like, everybody at Good.
Joe Budden Podcast: Is there any truth to—and we broke this down a lot here. I'm back to the Drake shit. Hate to be the messy guy, but I am. Is there any truth to the entire June Good Music rollout plan being based around Drake's rollout plan?
Pusha T: Well, that would have to—that's a—that's a real Ye issue. I didn't know that. Like, I wasn't in—I wasn't even privy—
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, yeah, because you're not there.
Pusha T: I'm not there, not present. So I didn't—I didn't know when he was dropping. I didn't know none of that. I got a call saying, you know...
Joe Budden Podcast: You didn't know when Drake was dropping?
Pusha T: No.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah. He said it, though. He said June 2018.
Pusha T: He never said this was—this was well before.
Joe Budden Podcast: He always said June. He said June.
Pusha T: I didn't—I didn't know when he was dropping. But I didn't know—I didn't—I also didn't know that Ye was gonna be like, "Yo, you know, put these around." That's a definite Ye thing. And that's why I said this issue is about real estate.
Joe Budden Podcast: But if that happened that way...
Pusha T: Yes.
Joe Budden Podcast: Let's act like it did. It means nothing. You don't own fucking June.
Pusha T: The valid man. Valid.
Joe Budden Podcast: Niggas can't fucking own months out here. The fuck that means?
Pusha T: Why—like, yo—like, that was that—that was so dumb. That was so dumb to me. I'm like...
Joe Budden Podcast: Oh, fuck.
Pusha T: Listen, you was on death.
Joe Budden Podcast: That is wrong. That's wrong.
Pusha T: I'm from the month of the man. That's wrong. Let's argue about it. That's wrong. That's wrong. Wait, where's my cape?
Joe Budden Podcast: No, it's not about owning the month. Come on, Puss, but—but he did say he was coming in June.
Pusha T: Well, listen, I didn't know—no, I'm not sure. I'm just saying, didn't he announce that before that shit, though?
Joe Budden Podcast: No, but I'm gonna tell you why he could feel a way, though. Because if he says he's coming in June and he's in the studio working, crooning with Kanye...
Pusha T: Yeah, come on, Puss.
Joe Budden Podcast: And then he leaves, and then all of a sudden, every artist on Good Music has an album in June, that's...
Pusha T: Y'all bromance.
Joe Budden Podcast: Listen, the bromance works both ways. They both be fake—be fake friends with each other all day. In my opinion, in my eyes, that's how I look at it. Like, it was interesting when he said that on The Shop, when he said 40 called him and said, "Yo, dawg, it's funny over here."
Pusha T: Yeah, because it always be funny. But then, it's always funny. It's always funny. It's always funny. Y'all playing. I wouldn't—win over there. That's what happens when you play. They play.
Joe Budden Podcast: I see what you're saying now. I get it. They play. Let me pause on that. I see what you're saying now. I get it. That's one of those powerful lines that he tried to just throw out there.
Pusha T: Nah, but that's what I'm saying. Like, they really do—like, that's not—but Drake kind of—he kind of implied that. And that's where you're right. Push—fans are really, really stupid, because when Drake said he got the phone call from his right-hand man that said, "Hey, it's funny over here," yeah, like something's—he's working—the very next sentence said, "I went anyway. I showed him a picture of my kid. I told him all this. I had a conversation with him. I confided in him, told him the troubles I was having with the mom."
Joe Budden Podcast: You just don't do that if your man told you that it was funny already. That shit pissed me off, too. At one point, do all of the rappers take some accountability? All—it's all of y'all, bro.
Pusha T: I mean, not—listen, he said—y'all. I don't have nothing to do—listen, I have nothing to do with months in real estate and time when people—
Joe Budden Podcast: Let's fight about that because I want to cape. I want to cape for Drake in that moment.
Pusha T: Go ahead, fam.
Joe Budden Podcast: He owns the month. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go ahead.
Pusha T: Okay.
Joe Budden Podcast: Do you believe in—do you believe in—uh, do you believe in—oh, yes, good question. Do you believe there's a such thing as gentleman's etiquette?
Pusha T: For sure, when—yeah, when people—when people are genuine friends, of course there is.
Joe Budden Podcast: You—so you don't believe that...
Pusha T: I don't believe—outside of that, I didn't know...
Joe Budden Podcast: What do you mean? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, outside of that, of course—man code?
Pusha T: Yeah, yes.
Joe Budden Podcast: Push is saying he—Push is saying he doesn't believe Drake and Kanye are as cool and as close as they would like for people to think.
Pusha T: More—time out. That's a—Push has stated on this podcast multiple times that there is some weird bromance energy that exists between these two gentlemen, Drake and Kanye, that is unexplainable. When I say "bromance," I'm being sarcastic, of course, because I don't believe—of course, right? And that's just the way that you say that. But it does exist, whatever exists between them two.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, does exist. So it does.
Pusha T: I guess what Drake is saying—and just, hurt people hurt people. So I'm looking at The Shop, and I'm seeing Drake be hurt. And I watched Kanye under the train tracks, so I know that there's some hurt there. Most beef is embroiled in hurt.
Joe Budden Podcast: Yeah, so we still don't know the original hurt.
Pusha T: So Push don't give a fuck about the way...
Joe Budden Podcast: The original—Push don't—I'm trying to find the source of it because Push is a—he's a killer. It's like, meet John—and find compassion in a killer. That's my favorite part, like, I'm—I'm off of that, but something does exist between them two. That's a fact.
Pusha T: Well, obviously.
Joe Budden Podcast: So if he confides in the man—and I do believe that's a mistake on Drake's part. I'm—you should not confide in the person that has this weird synergy with you. And this is—you—every chance he gets—
Pusha T: For sure. I said that on this podcast.
Joe Budden Podcast: But he did, so no, he doesn't own him on for June, Push, right? But he did confide in a friend or not a friend. He confided in someone he was working with under maybe false pretenses that he was dropping at a certain time.
Pusha T: Yeah, right.
Joe Budden Podcast: He got some information from Kanye to make him believe Kanye wasn't coming no time soon, because as an artist, you know a nigga wouldn't go out there and work on your album if you're coming when I'm coming. Come on, Push.
Pusha T: Yeah, I don't know what they'll do.
Joe Budden Podcast: I'm being honest, Joe, like I'm not even—I'm not faking though. Like, I don't know what they'll do. I don't know what they'll do.
Pusha T: Bro, listen. You got people—people are dissing me on beats they produce. Blah, blah, blah. Like, bro, I don't know how this shit works with them.
Joe Budden Podcast: I'm talking—all you know is he does not own the month of June. He don't. And I look like—he doesn't. You can't sandwich his fucking release. Yo, y'all sandwich the release. He had to go change months of planning. Why? Why?
Pusha T: Because Kanye is a megastar too.
Joe Budden Podcast: So now the other megastar that I've been secretly competing with my entire career...
Pusha T: There you go. That's the problem.
Joe Budden Podcast: Just took information that I gave him.
Pusha T: If you're secretly competing with anybody, you shouldn't be divulging information. You shouldn't be playing nice when you're really not nice. Stop playing.
Joe Budden Podcast: I feel like you and Drake would be great friends, like if they could just get past this stuff.
Pusha T: Bro, I'm past it.
Joe Budden Podcast: You are now.
Pusha T: I'm just telling you the truth.
Joe Budden Podcast: No, no, listen... Well, you are.
Pusha T: I really am.
Joe Budden Podcast: You was never on it.
Pusha T: Yeah, I—listen, I really am.
Joe Budden Podcast: In your brain, you was replying the fucking truth. That's it.
Pusha T: Yeah, but the truth hurts.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's right. Let's get back on the truth because the truth does hurt. I'm sitting here with this exclusive in my computer.
Pusha T: Yeah, we're running in circles right now. A lot of truths in the computer, but let me just say, man, and—and we were saying this uh, when we weren't recording, but Push is inspirational to me on a—on a few different fronts, right? Like, I say all the time how I gotta watch rappers that are 40 and up to see how they're doing 40 and up, because it's somebody approaching 40 and up. I want to know how I should be doing this thing here, and hip-hop ain't been alive but for so long. So you want to kind of model yourself after people. So Push being the president of Good Music—boy, did I always hate that a little bit because I burnt all my relationships throughout my career.
Pusha T: You couldn't be the president, bro.
Joe Budden Podcast: My god damn, man. Ah, fuck. Nobody likes me. Nobody will throw me a bone. Good thing this podcast worked out. Jeezy's a A&R at Atlantic.
Pusha T: Yeah, he couldn't catch nothing.
Joe Budden Podcast: Wait, I don't even know if Jeezy want people to know all that.
Pusha T: No, he announced it. I don't think he is anymore, but at one point he was.
Joe Budden Podcast: Didn't announce when he stopped. They kept that one quiet.
Pusha T: So yeah, so you inspired me there on one front. And on the other side, I watched all the niggas that have beefed with Drake. And as being someone that has beefed with Drake, as much as I disagree with your approach, I must applaud it. Got the job done, man. Let me hit the applause.
Joe Budden Podcast: I mean, the only way you can't—you can't bar Drake. You can't out-hit Drake. You gotta go that way. That's the way.
Pusha T: Hit that nigga.
Joe Budden Podcast: Push with a, "Oh, you lucky."
Pusha T: Oh, you lucky.
Joe Budden Podcast: That's what I keep saying. Aside—that's why I sound pussy. That is exactly why I sound pussy, because it's only but so many "Oh, you luckies" you can get. So let's just—I'll speak to my experience. In my experience, push—move back so I can gaze at this—Rory. In my experience, like I spoke to earlier, my method of beefing with Drake failed. And I think it failed because much like you, I was ready. You just ready for shit that you shouldn't be ready for. So I did this—Yeah, yeah, let's go. The narrative was able to change that way, right? Joe struck first. Narrative is on Joe. Right. With you though, you're much smarter than me. So when you speak about some of the things that are being done in war that are hidden from fans, just tell me how much of a deciding factor do you feel it is for fans to know some of the behind-the-scenes things that happen in war in our industry? Because, is that way the war is decided? I mean, behind the scenes—when is it ever truly decided by the ability?
Pusha T: Well, it's you know, I feel like behind the scenes is what can make or break you.
Joe Budden: Yeah, yeah.
Pusha T: Behind the scenes is what can make or break you. And then what happens within that is what's presented to the public. Behind the scenes in this situation, like I was saying earlier, I had tweeted out "Yo, there's a hundred thousand dollars that can't dig up skeletons that don't exist." That was a real thing. Like, you know, being on my way to Wyoming to listen to the Ye album, we get a call, and basically an old friend of mine said, "Listen, somebody reached out to me. They got a hundred grand for information on you." I knew it was true simply because the person—they should have never, they should have never known this person was privy. Like, this is from 2001, a different time in your life.
Joe Budden: Totally. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. There were a different time in your life.
Pusha T: And at the same time like it was, it was a shocker because the person who was mediating it was this lady, it was a girl named Cap. This person who was mediating this hundred grand was somebody who worked on all of my projects. Like she worked on all of my projects, worked on Adidas campaigns. I was at her baby shower.
Joe Budden: Why?
Pusha T: You would ever do that to me and... it's real deep, it's real deep with me and her just in regard to like, you know, is it just a money thing that makes somebody do that?
Joe Budden: Is it?
Pusha T: I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's heat. I think it's like, I think it's wanting to be next to heat. You know, she is an industry person. She is industry. And that's what it is. And it threw me for a minute. Like I literally, I actually called her husband. I was like, "Listen, this is what I heard. I hate that I'm hearing this right now, but if it is true, you understand that I'm not playing with anybody." And I meant it.
Joe Budden: And that was a very gentleman-like way to handle it.
Pusha T: Yeah, of course. And I told him, I said, "Listen, you don't even have to tell her, call me back." Because by the more I talked, the more I talked to him, the more I heard in his tone that it could have been some truth somewhere.
Joe Budden: He was giving it. He was giving you that energy, wasn't flat out denying it.
Pusha T: Wasn't flat out denying it. Was you know, excruciatingly like, "Oh I just can't be, let me just get to the bottom." But I just felt because that's this is something that should never have been said or done. With that being said, I get on a plane, I go to Wyoming. When I get to Wyoming, after the listening party, my DMs hit. My man Sean, he's in my DMs. He's like, "Yo, we need to talk tomorrow. Make sure you hit me." Now me and Sean, we're not even friends. Like, you know, we were friends earlier in life, falling out behind some rap shit.
I call him the next day like, "Yo, what's up?" He's like, "Listen, he's just out here offering a hundred grand for you." In regard to this whole beef. And I'd have been insulted—you can offer more than that.
Joe Budden: You know, I mean, I'd have been insulted.
Pusha T: By this time I was, I was... by this time I felt good though because I'm like you're offering what you don't have. You're offering because you don't have. So now I feel like I'm holding the aces, I'm holding everything. And talking to him, he puts his man on phone, who another guy who I wasn't cool with, his name is Fetty. And they was just like, "Yo, for real on some VA shit, like man, there's no way we gonna even participate in something like this against you. And beyond that, it's this girl on the phone who keep talking like she your sister, but she steady trying to get info to kill you."
Joe Budden: Somehow I have some of these clips and I'd like to play them. I don't want them to jeopardize the relationship between OVO, Mal, and Aubrey.
Pusha T: So me and Drake are good.
Joe Budden: Are you and him—
Pusha T: Me and Drake are good.
Joe Budden: That's good.
Pusha T: Me and Drake are good, man. Play whatever—that is good, everybody's good.
Joe Budden: Are you going to be in OVO still?
Pusha T: I'm good. I'm good, yes. I'm retired. I don't need the Drake feature anymore. No, I'm good, bro.
Joe Budden: Well, Rory likes Drake alive. Is this okay with you?
Pusha T: It's fine, Joe. I think I'll be okay.
Joe Budden: Y'all pussy. This is interesting because we just as fans don't get to hear shit like this. I'm gonna shut up.
Pusha T: This out—look just how deep it gets though. It's like, this is what nobody knows. This is what like, you're really combating. When y'all talk about rules and you talk about going too far, this is something you would—this is something you'd never hear about.
Joe Budden: Something you'd never hear about. Wait, I see what Push is doing here because Push likes to draw focus to things that we should focus on, but not pinpoint that we should focus on them. So I see what's happening here. Yeah, yeah. Is this kind of your way of saying, "Nigga, what rules are you referring to? What rules? How could there possibly be rules if you have six figures for dirty intel on me?"
Pusha T: Right, see. And that's always a different game. That's why I fuck with Pac. When I didn't know shit about shit and Pac said, "To start a war, you gotta get your money right." Right? As a 16-year-old, I was like, "Is that true?" Like, I got guns.
Joe Budden: He's right.
[Sound issues discussion]
Joe Budden: So you can understand what goes on here. Aubrey, Mal has nothing to do with this.
Unknown Speaker: I mean, I feel like, I feel like for what they're dealing with right now, some of the stuff that might be more—that might get niggas in trouble.
Pusha T: Yeah, like that's probably better. I don't know. That's just like... I think maybe that's left off the table because you know, people don't want to be dry and shit like that. You know what I mean? Whereas something like a baby—like you can't go stone in a glass house, you know what I mean? Like that is very relevant to the whole situation.
[Sound issues discussion]
Pusha T: Now be clear, like I said, that's a woman who I'm at your baby shower with my wife. I'm inviting you to my wedding and you would even attempt to dig up dirt, to the tune of—and what was good dirt to you was me having like a secret baby and this is who I call my sister, like wholeheartedly.
Joe Budden: Well, you know, as niggas, we call people our sister sometimes. It ain't really our sister.
Pusha T: Well, I think it speaks to—nah, but it ain't even that. It ain't even that. The morals of how people grew up because the dudes that was hitting you, you said you probably not even that that fly with, no?
Joe Budden: A hundred. And that's real nigga shit.
Pusha T: They was just raised a certain way.
Joe Budden: So hit you. Well, let me get the round of applause for these niggas, man.
[Sound issues discussion]
Recorded Conversation: Oh, and we had a lot of back and forth between each other, but I got this DJ. Actually, I know the guy personally, but I got his DJ, man, that did all his tours with him and the whole nine, and he got so much shit to say to you, man, you know what I mean? Yeah, but it's like, but it's sensitive and it's real, and it's, you know what I mean, it's unfiltered. So it's like, we all in the town. There might—it probably be some issues behind it, but that ain't—that ain't a big deal.
Pusha T: No, pause, what—listen, you know, and again, this is who actually gave me the tapes. This is who actually gave me the tapes. Like, you know, he was offended. Like, not to say too much about the guys, but they get to a bag. They really get to it. He was sort of offended how they were coming to him on some, "Yo, you know, we'll fly you up." Like they were—like that was impressive. That works on the girl, right? "We're gonna send the PJ, we're gonna send the PJ," talking, "You know, we got the money, blah, blah, blah."
Joe Budden: I hate PJ too. I don't want to hear that one. Yeah, I think you say PJ. Yeah, unless you actually own it.
Pusha T: No, but I'm about to stop—everybody stop. Yo, the PJ game is over, my nigga. You niggas don't own the PJs. Y'all are fucking renting the fucking PJs or doing deals with the companies that own it. I don't want to hear none of this pajama private jet.
Joe Budden: Their actual words were like, "We don't know what the fuck Jet Smarter is." Right? That's what they said to me.
Pusha T: Yeah, because that's all it is. People, that's exactly what they said to me. They was like, "Yo, he was, he was like talking to us like..." And they hated their accents.
Joe Budden: Pusher, I'm just being honest.
Pusha T: Don't be honest, I'm just telling you.
Joe Budden: Now go ahead.
[Pause in conversation]
Unknown Speaker: I ain't gonna lie, a few of these niggas wanted that hundred grand.
Pusha T: Facts. For sure. Facts, facts.
Joe Budden: Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Hey, what you looking for, man?
Pusha T: Let me tell you who—because who you're listening to, that is my former DJ, my—the Clipse former DJ. And we don't rock with each other, got it? We don't rock with each other. But of course, you know, that didn't—
Joe Budden: Well, that is the person you want to call for the right—for the right.
Pusha T: But when it's—but when it's no dirt, it don't matter. It ain't no dirt. I told people that from the door though. I said, "Listen, there's absolutely nothing about me that I can't wear out here. Nothing, nothing. Woman, wife, whatever, nothing. We're gonna wear everything."
What I will say, and I'll say this with my MC hat on that I don't want to wear anymore, there's not very many MCs that can say that. And again, I don't say that because you're sitting here. We live a very public lifestyle.
Joe Budden: Yes, we do.
Pusha T: So our dirt is normally done in public as well. So I understand where they're coming from, trying to get the dirt.
Joe Budden: Yeah, and I mean, I won't judge them for it because I guess you're supposed to try to get the dirt.
Pusha T: No, no, I'm not judging them either. I'm just saying when it comes to rules and playing—it can't be rules. It can't be "This is how far we going, this how far we going,"
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