Drink Champs: He has been sipping from the fountain of youth for about 20-something years. He's not aged at all. It's the same. His bar level has increased and increased and increased. It's not to say that he's selling more drugs, but the rap has been getting better and better. If there's something called rap steroids, pretty sure he invented it. Better and better with time. He's been able to fulfill the dream that I always wanted to do. I always wanted to have Pharrell and Swizz Beatz produce the whole album. But he got someone, he got Pharrell and Kanye, something I never even thought of. I mean, this album is really, really like fine wine. I mean, he comes from my era, so I wanted to critique it. I wanted to find the flaws in it. I wanted to be like, yeah, well, you ain't do this, this, this. Oh, you ain't do this. It's not there. It's not there, people. I try to analyze it. I try to analyze the something. And it's not there. This album is excellent. So then when you hear the man who represents Black Excellence, Diddy, comes on. And trust me, if he ain't getting paid, he don't promote shit. We've tried. And he gets on there and says, this is the album. This is it. We're not playing around out here. This man has been able to maintain the level of, what is this, relevancy in different eras without being old. It's crazy. From cash, doll, to whoever he can work with, to Kendrick, he can work with. And stand the test of time. In case you don't know who the fuck I'm talking about. We're talking about the one, the motherfucking only. Pusha, motherfucking, T. I can't lie to you, Pusha. I really did look at the album. And I wanted to do it at night as a friend.
Pusha T: Okay.
Drink Champs: I don't want to say as a journalist, but yeah, let's say that. I wanted to look at it with something I could be like, man. And it was one thing that I did. And then it shut me up. I said, damn, he don't got no radio record. And then the little Uzi bird came in and just smacked me. Shut the fuck up, Lord. It's like... How do you maintain that? Because it's hard, bro. And especially getting money, the more money we get, the hunger goes away.
Pusha T: Yeah. That's true.
Drink Champs: So, I mean, yeah, man. I ain't been hungry in a long time.
Pusha T: All right. I know.
Drink Champs: So, how do you maintain that on that Mike level?
Pusha T: Man, I've made it my business to... First of all, I only know how to rap one way. I only know lyric-driven metaphors, rap, street rap. That's it.
Drink Champs: And you're comfortable with that.
Pusha T: And that's what I'm comfortable with. I know if I step outside of that, I'm going to look like a clown. That's just not me. But I only know how to do it one way. So, I've made it my business to make sure lyrically it stays up, you know, it can stand up against whatever's popular out there as well. Like, that's how I attack it. I listen to everything that's going on musically.
Drink Champs: Coilerae?
Pusha T: Huh?
Drink Champs: You listen to Coilerae too?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Yeah, Coilerae.
Pusha T: Yeah. I like her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, I listen to all the young music. And listening to it while I'm writing, I'm definitely thinking, like, man, how can these flows, how can these bounces, how can the things that I'm saying, you know, still relate to them, still relate to them and they get it? Or they just respect it. It's not, you know, it's like the same way I can't do what they do, I'm pretty sure they can't do what I do either. But we got to respect each other's craft and that's how I attack it.
Drink Champs: Right. Because there was something like I've seen the Coilerae video on The Breakfast Club.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: And there was something that Charlemagne said that really hit me. He said, one thing you can never really, like, praise too much is youth.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: Because if you're really good, your youth goes.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: You understand what I'm saying?
Pusha T: Right, yeah.
Drink Champs: Like, don't get it twisted, you could be young forever. Like you said, you could be young forever. But is that something that you pride yourself on is because, you know, the longevity, like, we didn't, coming up, we didn't realize, damn, Q-Tip, this is, you know, praising Q-Tip, we didn't realize they're here 15 years.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: We didn't realize and we didn't realize how hard that was. Is that something that you meditated and thought about or is that something that just came naturally?
Pusha T: Well, it's been, it's been a, it's been part of my race. I put this, this has been in my plan.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: This has been a part of my race.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: You know, when I think about all the greats that I ever loved, everybody who was, like, popping, I mean, you know, everybody I tried to, young and trying to dress like and put on clothes, like, cut my eyebrows and all, everything I did, right?
Drink Champs: Like Daddy Kane.
Pusha T: Yeah, of course. Of course, of course, when I think about it, they only had three joints, three albums, maybe, maybe five?
Drink Champs: If you look at the verses between Kane and KRS, you kind of realize, like, damn, Kane only probably had three albums, like.
Pusha T: Maybe.
Drink Champs: Wow.
Pusha T: Maybe.
Drink Champs: But who's fault you think that would be, theirs as an artist or the industry at the time?
Pusha T: Nah, I think it's, I think it's, well, this is, this is my theory on that. I'm going to say it's their fault, artistically. But I'm going to say this, the era in which they came up in was so good. It was the golden age, the golden era, the greatest music. Still, think about it. We still taking fashion cues from them.
Drink Champs: Absolutely.
Pusha T: You know what I'm saying? We still.
Drink Champs: The slang is still from them, too.
Pusha T: It's still all from them. So when everything that came after them versus embracing it, I feel like they were more like, yeah, but it ain't like what we did.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: You know what I'm saying? It ain't like how we was rocking. And I feel like that, you know, when you have that, that mentality and that energy, you, it sort of ages you out and it stifles, it stifles the progression of what you could be doing.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: You know what I'm saying? And I think, in all honesty, I think that, I want to say that from before that era or from that era, I want to say Hove is probably the only one who did more reaching out or, yo, I'm a rock with, whether it was, you know, internally with the young Philly dudes on rock versus doing the features with whoever you, you know.
Drink Champs: You talk about maintaining that level of legend, legendariness. And still being tapping into that younger thing for you, that youthful energy.
Pusha T: Well, competing with it.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: Competing with it.
Drink Champs: Listen, Pusher, that's very hard.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Because when they're calling you a legend.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Or they're calling you an OG, they're also calling you O.
Pusha T: For sure.
Drink Champs: And what's wrong with that?
Pusha T: Sure.
Drink Champs: What's wrong with that?
Pusha T: No, no, no, no, no.
Drink Champs: But when, there's nothing wrong with that, by the way.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: But the youth looks at that as a crutch. They doesn't look at that as a shield. They don't look at that as a sword. They look at it as a handicap, almost. Like, if you look at the interview, like, with Corey LaRace, she's dropping her album. She can't understand why Charlamagne keeps bringing up Pusher D.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: And she's like, well, how old is he? Is he like, 900? It's like, no. Like, no, he's 40. And 40 is, like, great to be 40. Like, if you're 20 years old, and I know Corey LaRace will be her up.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: No, for sure.
Pusha T: But, yeah, I like her, too. I'm big up Ray and Taj and all of them and the Pops and everybody. But what I'm trying to say is 40 seems so old to us.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: And now that we're in 40, it's like, oh, we're still young, motherfuckers.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: But they don't get that. And I think that, you know, I think that the way that my fan base has grown, I feel like I got day one fans, and I also pick up new ones. But I feel like that comes from outside of music, too. That comes from, like, the fashion aspect or just even sonically. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's, you know, like, the cool kids, the cool kids still love to decipher the lyrics. And they want to be put on to, like, oh, what's that brand he talking about? Because they want to go outside and be like, oh, I got this. You ain't got this. You ain't on this.
Drink Champs: Right, right, right.
Pusha T: So as long as you still playing those games, it sort of helps. I won't lie to you.
Drink Champs: Yeah. I listened to the Lil Uzi Vert song.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: And I did not know I was a Lil Uzi Vert fan. I did not know that because I went and I took, then I went on and I wanted to see all these other songs that Lil Uzi Vert is on. And it was so many songs that I was familiar. I just didn't identify that that was Lil Uzi Vert.
Pusha T: Uzi's special. Uzi's special because what people don't know is Uzi, Uzi's Philly. He's a rapper.
Drink Champs: Yes.
Pusha T: Like, you know what I'm saying? He didn't just unlock his creativity on some, like, rock dial. You see him style the niggas in gas stations.
Drink Champs: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Pusha T: He's like, don't play. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like.
Drink Champs: And he had a diamond on his forehead. Let's be clear.
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah. He's out of his mind. He's like, God. Give him his space. Give him his space. He deserves it.
Drink Champs: Yes.
Pusha T: But, you know, and, you know, so he still, he, what a lot of people don't know is he really has the skill set.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: And when you hear the verse and you be like, oh, nah, he got a real skill set. When you listen to Neon Guts with him and Pharrell, it's like, oh, oh, hell nah. He, he really rap. He doing what he want to do.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: Now, how, how, um, yeah, let's pick up a little Uzi Vertis.
Drink Champs: For sure. Look over that. But how crazy, how many gray hairs that you get trying to get Kanye and Pharrell in the studio at the same time?
Pusha T: Oh, I didn't even.
Drink Champs: No?
Pusha T: No. It was that easy.
Drink Champs: It was that easy.
Pusha T: Not even once.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Not even once. I, um, you know, I really, so how I started the whole process even making the album was like, I had like a, I had a record. I had one record from, from Ye and that was Hear Me Clearly.
Drink Champs: Right?
Pusha T: Yeah, clearly.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: So I, I took, I took, it was one verse. So, um, I took Hear Me Clearly down to Miami. I came down here and, um, I was like, yeah, man, I'm ready to start. I said, me and Ye cooked up something the other day and it just, it got me going.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: And he was like, let me hear it. Pharrell was like, let me hear it. So I played it and he was like, eh, he shrugged on me.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Ye shrugged on you?
Drink Champs: No, no.
Pusha T: Pharrell.
Drink Champs: Pharrell.
Pusha T: Pharrell was strong on me, on the Hear Me Clearly record.
Drink Champs: Okay.
Pusha T: And he was like, you know, like,
Drink Champs: I ain't going to lie. I love cocky Pharrell.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: No, listen, he's like, listen, but don't nobody know that. He be like this.
Pusha T: I mean, yeah. Listen, he like, yo, he like, um, I mean, it's all right. But I mean, you like, you, I mean, you won't be in a mixtape. You want to make a mixtape. How many mixtapes you want to make? He called it a mixtape. I said, wow. I said, okay.
So I was like, you know, at the time, so I'm like, damn, like, you know, and mind you, we just talking. He like, man, like, you know, for you to go to the next level, you got to become a character out here. Like, bro, how many high 16 is bro? I'm tired of the high 16. I'm in and bro, it's, I'm talking about, it's punching me every, every word he's saying is punching me, punching me.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: And I'm like, and I'm, you know, I'm just thinking, I'm sitting, I'm thinking, I'm thinking back. I'm like, man, I used to like, you know, you got on, like I used to get in your use GS. We used to ride Norfolk state, go pick up these same mixtapes you talking about ride the whole day.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: You know, we know the whole verse from Norfolk to Virginia beach and back. Like, it's just like, you know, and I'm just thinking to myself like, damn, like, is we not, is we not where we at? Like, you know, and he was, then I just got, you know, I just, I just listened. I just listened and just let him keep going. And I realized, man, like, he's just at this place where that man tries to knock everything out the park, everything.
I don't care what it is. And I don't even think we made music. That's how the conversation was so ill to me. I don't think we made music that day. I think we just talked it out and, and I had to like, just process it and like, you know, and you know, we might've had, just had the rest of the day kicked it, whatever the case may be. But I don't, I don't think we did nothing that day, nothing with, with the intentions on coming in to like, yo, let's, let's get busy.
And you know, I had, it was, it was, it was during the pandemic or whatever. So usually every morning, every morning, me and him would talk six in the morning, you know, six.
Drink Champs: He's definitely an early guy.
Pusha T: I'm an early guy.
Drink Champs: Yeah. You were early too.
Pusha T: I'm an early guy. So being, I was, I was staying at his crib during this time, we would just get up, we'd just get up at six. So I'm like, man, you know, we both up, we both fresh. He'd be like, man, let's come in when we fresh and let's just, you know, let's, let's, let's just start working. And so then that's when the actual process started like a day later. And we'd just be in the studio working, get up early.
Drink Champs: Cause you haven't been working together since you, since y'all was in Virginia broke nothing.
Pusha T: So not rapping, not rapping. I was, we've been working together since we were hanging out. I wasn't even rapping. He came to me one day on some, like, he came to me like, yo, your brother is Gene. He the rapping is dude. I know. Are you kidding me? And I'm like, oh, for real? Like, really? I was like, nah, you can't work with him. He worked with Tim. He can't, he can't.
Drink Champs: And you're like, I'm just shooting it.
Pusha T: I was going to be talking about Malice, right?
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: We talking about Malice.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: He was, you know, he was at that time, Timberland and my brother, they all went to junior high school together. Timberland was the DJ for all of the, everybody who rapped and he knew my brother from being down the beach and rapping amongst all of them guys and didn't know that that was my brother.
Drink Champs: For real?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay.
Pusha T: You know, when he found out, he was like, ah, man, you know, time goes on. Tim, Tim, you know, got his foot in the door first and went to Jersey, left VA, went to Jersey, Joe to see all of that. And that opened the door.
Drink Champs: No, Teddy came down. Teddy came to Virginia.
Pusha T: Yeah. Teddy came down. And that opened the door for my brother and Chad to connect well before, again, well before I was rapping.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: So.
Drink Champs: But wait, but how much did that conversation you guys have set the foundation or momentum for when you started working on the music?
Pusha T: Um, it, it, it was the, it was totally the foundation. It was everything. It was like, once he said that, one thing I, one thing I said about even working with him and Ye during this process was I was going to listen, like I was going to follow direction. Um, I came into this game always knowing how much per production, the marriage between the lyrics and production made, you know what I'm saying? Made the magic.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: I never thought I rapped so good that, you know, I could just rap over anything. All of my favorites got a very bad album somewhere. Cause they think they can just rap over anything.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: You know what I'm saying? And I always peep that.
Drink Champs: Very true.
Pusha T: Yeah. You know, and, and, and I was like, okay. I, and I always understood that. I always understood that. And I, and the biggest thing for me was to make this better than Daytona. Like I was like, man, how can I make this? I want my Daytona just in case.
Drink Champs: Okay.
Pusha T: I did.
Drink Champs: Just in case.
Pusha T: Okay.
Drink Champs: I'm Batman.
Pusha T: Just in case.
Drink Champs: Okay.
Pusha T: But, um, yeah, you know, my biggest thing was to make it better than Daytona. And, um, but I was like, man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to like, just listen to them and see, like, I, I've really wanted to be produced. Cause I felt like that was one thing about Daytona. I just rapped.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: I just rapped over. We was, we was fast tracking it. We was going, I was, I was going, I stayed in there with Ye. So I could get the hardest beats when everybody else would leave and whatever. I was just like, nah, or just so he wouldn't steal them.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: For himself. I stayed and I took him. And I was like, you know, after that, you know, he was working on five albums at that particular time.
Drink Champs: You, Nas, Good Music.
Pusha T: Everybody.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: Tiana.
Drink Champs: His own.
Pusha T: Him and Cuddy.
Drink Champs: Kissy goes.
Pusha T: Right.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: Tiana.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: Tiana.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: Leftover.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: Tiana.
Drink Champs: So.
Pusha T: So I was fast tracking it, you know, just writing boom, boom, and trying to get it done. And I didn't feel like I was produced. So I said, you know what? I know. At least that's one bar I can check off in.
Drink Champs: You talkin' about Daytona.
Pusha T: Tiana.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Crazy.
Drink Champs: Tiana.
Pusha T: So I was like, man, I know that's one bar. I can check off in terms of like making this album better is like let them produce me while we got this time ain't nobody rushing it's the pandemic ain't nothing going on right so you know that was the first that was the first thing so i said man i'm gonna listen and um you know and pharrell pharrell made it very clear he was like listen man if we gonna do this we gonna we gonna do flows we gonna do cadences i'm gonna make sure this hooks is sticky i'm make sure that the b course is a stick what's the joint where i kind of feel like you like resembling slick rick uh everything don't need to be addressed what was that done on purpose or
Drink Champs: Yeah that was the hardest record that was the hardest record so the record the record was written right i executed it boom boom like you know i'm saying pharrell come in hear it and he's like man that ain't it he's like that saying that you still rapping to me you and your b-boy stance you ain't embodying nothing you ain't done i'm like now mind you by the time i even tell him to come in to listen i it's because i'm married i'm happy i'm i'm good i'm like i'm married to what i've done
Drink Champs: You were proud of him already he come and tear the whole man he tear the whole chalkboard off the wall
Pusha T: No it's not it you ain't you ain't enough of a character you ain't enough of a character and by this time this is when we sort of started the exercise of like we would play the joker every day because it was on mute
Drink Champs: I heard y'all played it on mute
Pusha T: Well at first we're just watching it he was like man you know he was talking about character this and that then he gets into he's like man play the joke when he in the bronx uh joaquin phoenix yeah when he went in the bronx yeah okay so we like yo we like um he's like man you know uh you need to um you need to be more in character man he's like man this is you look at you you you laugh just like him you you you laugh and you ain't supposed to laugh at you you got you got dark tendencies about yourself you just you know you start critiquing me so i'm like all right you know whatever so um we just watching it every day watching every day and then he started making beats and then he would mute it and be like man this the ill scene look at this ill scene like this sound like this this sound supposed to go to this and you see homeboy running down the steps or doing whatever he's doing you know doing some ill shit so um you know with that being the case he was like man i don't want i don't want you rapping i want you to you know like really embody it like you know that's why that that's why that song sounds so i'm saying all the evil shit i would say but i'm talking matter of factly like buffalo shrimp from my hey mas coke deals upstairs at the ramada the ocean from hotels was popular and crack was cemented phenomenon elected presidential was on my arm you know they're just like you know just talking like you know and but he made me like bro that took forever i felt like i was a r b singer like because he made me like like yo nah you still you you know i'm still
Drink Champs: He like nah i don't know that's not it is is that a hit to your ego like how much of your ego takes a hit when he's telling you this man it's my brother i mean i don't you know like my ego don't my ego don't even kick in with him as far as that goes it's the difference in what we appreciate because it's still at the end of the day a high 16 is like a top 10 record to me if a nigga got 24 mean bars and i come across it i'm i'm floored but i'm gonna know it i'll memorize it you know what i'm saying like that's something that like that's something that i can hear in the street and i can feel in the street and some you know niggas gonna talk about it the bar the shop and so on and so forth like all of that energy is what fuels me and it was just it was bothersome to know that that ain't really fuel him like it used to fuel him like it used to fuel us together that was my issue more so i i believe that's a beautiful thing i think we should make some more yeah but one thing on the album that you said that i did disagree you said you thought your fans you wish your fans was more like j cole's right and i think you said because and then line after that because the dope boys because dope boys gotta be the man like they know double entendre shorty low they know i'm the man i'm the man but i want to disagree with you the reason why why is that let me just tell you why i'm gonna tell you why
Pusha T: Go ahead
Drink Champs: I'm gonna tell you what i go through okay because i don't think they actually when it comes to when a person says pusher and they say kendrick and they say jay and they say cole i don't think they they say pusher is is it but he's dope rapper cocaine raps and kendrick is i think that you're all in that lyrical yeah and they're all i think i don't think i don't think you're you're you're you're you're categorized as a cocaine dope rapper or jay's cocaine dope rapper and kendrick is the backpack dope rapper and j cole is a a dread wearing dope rap i don't think it's categorized like that i think it's categorized as lyricism and then and in the cage of lyricism you and jay cole has the same fans in the case of
Pusha T: No no listen and that may be true i mean we toured together right so we toured together and and that that that line came from just referencing but jay said something like jay he literally he wish you would be tall and i kind of felt that that was what you was going with it
Drink Champs: Nah okay see see with me it was like when i was saying that i was just speaking to the fact that man you know i've been on tour with j cole and when i when i when i was out there and i would like i would go out there of course do my set watch his set um maybe even go to the after party or whatever they you know i'm saying his crew whatever the case may be but it was the energy around him was just like it was all it was all praise and like man they just happy to feel like a college energy and just people were just happy to be around them and happy to see him um i forgot you what year was that he on the phone okay um yeah yeah but um but but i was likening it to when i go out and like when i do the after parties and so on and so forth it's a it kind of gets a dangerous thing right and it's like you know you you you got those who love you on some like yo yo i'm rocking what you doing then it's always the yeah you know i'm killing you you know it's a different energy and then it turns into you know that get a little dicey and it get a little right you know got to turn into this and it was just it was just tapping on another uh another instance of call my bluff because even that person can get it like i'm just like bro that's what my mindset was but that mindset is like that's a real thing for me in real in real time outside like you run across that energy with what it is that i do whereas what what j cole does it's like man it's like it's just a different it's it's cool it's lax in the in in his fans are just like he'll be riding bikes through the city by himself bro
Drink Champs: You know what i'm saying he definitely lyric but still like bob marley is like like he's like the hip-hop bob marley to me and i'm yeah and i love listen i love my fans i'm not you know i'm not trying to uh you know talk down on them at all but i'm just saying there's a difference in okay the rest said watch what you say you attracted so yeah if that's cocaine it's constant a lot of the co-boys is going to come through your joints listen for low down sergio tucini the 88 88 car phones right you know what i'm saying like that is that what happens to you yeah but that it's not that it's the approach it's the you know you know you know the energy it's the kind i've been out with you before like you know what you're saying yeah well and i'm saying i think is is sonically like lyricism sonically it's it's all in the same
Pusha T: Oh for sure
Drink Champs: What you're saying is the content is attracting a different energy. You're right you're right like the specific content that you're addressing not total one thousand percent right you are right yeah um but um it's like I think they repeat this question to you all the time, repeat this question to Jay-Z all the time. They repeat these questions to Jay-Z all the time, and it's like as much as you've grown, it's still that "this is where I come from" type of hustle rap. It's the cocaine references, and how is that throughout these years? Is this question always going to come up, or do they understand that it's a reference?
Pusha T: I don't mind the question because am I answering it right? You know what I'm saying, it's like I've been saying as of late, I'm trying to be the Martin Scorsese of street rap. I want y'all to understand like, y'all don't ask Martin Scorsese to make Gone with the Wind. You want him to make a gangster flick with guns, mob killers, and we all run to the movie every time. We all doing whatever we doing to see it, talking about it and loving it for a lifetime.
Drink Champs: Yep, yep, that's what happens, yes.
Pusha T: So for me, I look at myself like that. This is rap that I know. I mean, how I look at rap, man, rap started in the street. It started from poverty, it started from despair, it started from just coming outside talking about your environment. I don't understand why it's an issue. I don't even understand why people talk about what my content is versus what somebody else's content is. At this point I've been in this 20 years. I'm here to entertain a certain sector of people. I'm not reaching out trying to get new people and so on and so forth.
And I don't believe that it's just cocaine if you're a surface level listener. You're surface level if you think that. I don't think I write for surface level listeners. I write for people who be like "you rewind that back." That's what I want people to say. "I'll be running this a couple times, let's get it." That's it.
Drink Champs: So I mean, let's talk about the album. I want to break down song from song at some point, but before we get deep straight into the album, I want to ask something. I've heard you on the Breakfast Club answer this. I've also, I believe—I'm not sure if you did Ebro and them? You did Ebro and them, right?
Pusha T: Yesterday.
Drink Champs: Okay, I don't know if I've seen it yet. But I've seen a couple of your interviews where this Jack Harlow song is brought up. I'm gonna be honest, Push, because you like the only Thanos. Like this man has no other losses anywhere. This man is the Michael Elvis, I don't even know if that's a person, you made that one up.
Pusha T: You know I made it up.
Drink Champs: This man, and he says revenge is not even negotiable. Even though this verse could be old, revenge—I gotta get him back for that. Whatever, I'm paraphrasing. You heard it?
Pusha T: I did.
Drink Champs: On Jack Harlow?
Pusha T: He tried, he tried to body—tried to kill Jack.
Drink Champs: I heard it and it sounded like he was trying to kill Jack, coming for you. What does Pusha T say, even though it's old, it might be old?
Pusha T: Listen, I don't—I mean, when I say old, it sounded old. Like just the flows, the raps, it just wasn't what it is that I think four years later after what I did. That wasn't—that didn't even faze me. But you don't think—
Drink Champs: But you don't think because even though like you said it sounds old, but the content of it was like "I ain't forgetting it, I'm coming."
Pusha T: But I don't care. I don't care what they forget. I don't care. Just being totally, totally honest, I don't give a f*. And I think they know it. Like they know it, all parties know it. Ye know it, he know it. I'm not playing with anybody.
Drink Champs: Because you did not show up at the concert?
Pusha T: No.
Drink Champs: Yeah, no, we noticed.
Pusha T: He asked me to.
Drink Champs: Because you know what—
Pusha T: Because at this point none of it's a game to me, none of it. And I'm doing my best to just let bygones be bygones. I'm chilling, I'm good. Listen to my album—Untouchable. But I look at all of that as—and all of that energy as still showing the effects of what it is that I've done. For real.
Drink Champs: That's ill. Because really I don't even think about it.
Pusha T: I don't. There's no bars on this album.
Drink Champs: I was looking for that too.
Pusha T: My album's flawless right without it. That's what's crazy. Anybody else would have jumped on anything, all that. No, not me, because I ain't really playing. I'm really not. So everybody understands, that's it.
Drink Champs: So let me ask, has J Prince ever reached out to you?
Pusha T: I spoke to J Prince numerous times, man.
Drink Champs: So not about him?
Pusha T: Hell no. Can't nobody talk to me about him. Hell no.
Drink Champs: Because I also heard you say you don't want to reconcile with him.
Pusha T: I don't want to be—I'm gonna be honest, I don't want it. Let's just not even—I don't want it with 3 . I want to wreck it after—I don't want it. I'm cool. I'm cool without it.
Drink Champs: You don't want no ad-libs?
Pusha T: Nope, none, none.
Drink Champs: No photo?
Pusha T: Nah, I'm cool.
Drink Champs: God damn, photo come on.
Pusha T: I'm cool.
Drink Champs: No, I'm fing with him at this point. I just want to just name s for him to say no. Oh, you don't play hockey with him, you know, Canada?
Pusha T: None of it. I'm cool. I ain't playing. I'm gonna just go ahead and do what I do.
Drink Champs: But y'all at peace?
Pusha T: I'm at peace.
Drink Champs: So if right now you're hosting Saturday Night Live—that was a wrong choice. You're hosted—
Pusha T: I can't host Saturday Night—I'm not allowed to do that.
Drink Champs: That I'm in Saturday Night, right? You're in this part of the club, right? They say there's one other artist walking in here. They want the other side of the club right next to there. You see who it is, it's Push. You're leaving?
Pusha T: No, but you're not—
Drink Champs: You're not extending your hand?
Pusha T: No, I don't want to—I won't hide though.
Drink Champs: If as a person who, let's just look at the face value, let's say out of everyone who actually said that you guys sparred, that you guys went at it. Everyone says you won, most of the people who were—they were good content, especially after his Meek Mill debacle. Most people say that you won. So then why are you not willing to say, you know what, it was—
Pusha T: I felt attacked. So, because things that I don't speak on and things that I won't speak on have happened since, that I just ain't gonna speak on. But I ain't playing. So for me, it ain't even about—I feel like if it was just a rap thing and it was what it was, you know, that was cool.
Drink Champs: You think that they went too far when they mentioned your lady's name or where was it the point where it was like, "this is it"?
Pusha T: Oh no, I—I don't really talk about it, but I'm just saying, I feel like there were—I've been to Canada before. I can't—I'm banned from Canada because I've been—I'm banned from Canada. I can't get back. I can't get back over there.
Drink Champs: Really?
Pusha T: Yeah, I ain't allowed to go back over there.
Drink Champs: That's why you gotta squash this beef because I'm trying to go.
Pusha T: Because what, I think is where they think that you went too far.
Pusha T: I don't care. I don't care. There is no too far. I don't play like that. That's why you don't play with me. There is no too far. It's not right forever, is—
Drink Champs: Is there any time limit?
Pusha T: Leave me be. Leave me be because there's no too far. That's how it goes. But that's the thing—
Drink Champs: No, no, they won't play. That's the thing, that's the problem. You felt like you went too far?
Pusha T: Who, me? I never go too far. There's no too far. There's no too far, absolutely promise you.
Drink Champs: Did you ever feel like that?
Pusha T: I never felt nothing. And anybody who ever told me that I was—that I went too far, I never spoke to him again. I was like, oh, okay.
Drink Champs: Let's just revisit, let's just revisit how everyone thinks this started. Was it started from the "Mr. Me Too"?
Pusha T: I don't know. I don't even know at this point.
Drink Champs: No, no, for real. For me, and this is because that's what me—from the outsider looking in as an insider, though.
Pusha T: For me, when you go all the way back to all of that, I remember just a very dark time for me just musically, not having, being in what you call a label drama or whatever. And I remember, I mean, when you go back to "Mr. Me Too," you're talking about the Wayne thing and all that?
Drink Champs: That's what it was, kind of felt like it was trickled down?
Pusha T: Well, yeah, because I mean, there was like some vibe issue where he was—we had just, I think we had just done "What Happened to That Boy" or something with Birdman. Or later on down the line, people were telling Wayne he was trying to talk dope like the Clipse or drugs, and he wore BAPE like the Clipse. I never said that. And I think it just, at this particular time, it was a rough time for us because we was going through label drama, whatever. You remember that? Like the four-year hiatus?
Drink Champs: Oh yeah, and this is the Jive Records—
Pusha T: And so then there was a vibe article where he just spoke to that, but he just spoke about us in a very—
Drink Champs: Little?
Pusha T: Yeah, like a down—you know, like down talking to us. And I'm like, damn, we already going through—we going through and you're not even bright enough or smart enough at the time. I ain't—I got no problem. Wayne, I mean, just so we clear, I ain't—you know, it's whatever.
Drink Champs: So Wayne is that same artist in that club, you're gonna—you might not necessarily—
Pusha T: But I'm not giving nobody a pound. No, it's cool. It's cool, but it's no problem. But I just, you never know.
Drink Champs: All right, cool. You just know how it is.
Pusha T: But uh, you know, so that's what, for me, back then, what started—I feel like everything else was just, as of late, it was a lot of like just the Kanye drama. Because being next to it, the pain.
Drink Champs: N and me would have been like, what the f* you doing this concert for? What's the name of the concert?
Pusha T: I don't remember.
Drink Champs: Yeah, but like, what the f* you doing this concert for? We went to ball.
Pusha T: Like a pain, depending—they gave me—but you know, at the same time, you gotta—I recognize, I know how to compartmentalize everything. That's my gift. Like that's my real gift.
Drink Champs: J and Ye got together. It was needed for hip-hop. Do you think that this was the same thing?
Pusha T: No, I don't even think they make good music together. That's the wildest part. Like, ain't even like a hot record. Name it.
Drink Champs: Glow?
Pusha T: What?
Drink Champs: Glow? When?
Pusha T: Come on. Google this.
Drink Champs: Why you gotta Google it? Like, come on.
Pusha T: So it's not like—for real, for me, just them doing what they did, I felt like that was good for them because it was hard though. I thought Kanye looked amazing. Like he looked—I mean, his discovery just showed artiste with the E, you know what I'm saying? Like next level. But with that being said, I don't—damn, I forgot where I was at.
Drink Champs: You said you thought Kanye looked good, but—
Pusha T: Oh yeah, I thought, you know, I think that was good for them. I think that was good. And I don't, I don't ever put no type of pressures nowhere. I'll stay out of the situation because they're playing—they're playing—they play an industry game. I think Kanye said he's on a professional level, and that's cool and that's great. And that's like, I feel like that's gonna work for them and what it is that they do.
Drink Champs: What about you?
Pusha T: No, I'm cool. I'm just over here. I've—I know exactly what my lane is. I know exactly what I'm doing. I know exactly who I want to be with, who I want to make records with. I know what I'm not doing. I know what damage is my brand, what doesn't. And there's absolutely no value in that for me.
Drink Champs: Because immediately when we heard "Neck and Wrist," don't lie. And then Hov said, "I blew bird money," and like, "Did they go again?"
Pusha T: Oh no, I didn't—that's what it seemed like?
Drink Champs: No, no, no, no, no. "I blew bird money y'all talking Twitter feed"—"feed bird," you know, they call the feed?
Pusha T: But what I'm saying, ain't that smart, but I'm just saying, but you gotta be—but I'm just saying like, that—no, but did you see that first day on Twitter?
Drink Champs: Yeah, but there was just—I knew that.
Pusha T: Before?
Drink Champs: Yeah, but I just knew they was not understanding.
Pusha T: Oh, I was into all the gossip.
Drink Champs: Nah, man, that was like every last one of them. He's the other fan you have, like, wow.
Pusha T: He's on the lower frequency because they really brought into it until—what's my man's name, Young Guru.
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah.
Pusha T: Actually went on—that's when I knew, that's when I knew it was like, it probably got too loud when I saw Guru say something because I seen it, but I'm like, whatever, ain't that's gonna blow over? But I don't know, that wasn't real because it's kind of like, just think about the people that you have beef with and you survive. Little Wayne, Birdman, and Drake, and you have no like scars.
Pusha T: For me, it's nothing.
Drink Champs: Nothing.
Pusha T: It's nothing.
Drink Champs: But it's all love, it's all love. There's no—
Pusha T: No. Okay with me, I have no issues, man.
Drink Champs: And you're banned from Canada? I thought you was just saying that.
Pusha T: Oh no, no, I'm serious. And this is—
Drink Champs: All right, all right. How did you know, how did you know you was banned?
Pusha T: My manager over here told me.
Drink Champs: What happened?
Pusha T: Well, I mean, I'm not gonna get into that, but—
Drink Champs: Can you hit down with Trump? You know?
Pusha T: I didn't ask him to do nothing, no.
Drink Champs: Yeah, because I'm cool.
Pusha T: Trump and—
Drink Champs: What? What the—bro, you said Trump, you talking about—
Pusha T: They can put it together.
Drink Champs: What are you talking about?
Drink Champs: So you say—all right, let's just be clear. You said you went to customs, and they said, "Hey, you gotta turn down"?
Pusha T: You're trying to tell me you gotta turn out at the border, turn out?
Pusha T: No, I didn't get turned out at the border.
Drink Champs: Oh, so I just—you filled out for your visa and they—
Pusha T: What did you encounter?
Pusha T: I didn't do nothing. I went to my show, you know, it was rowdy, people at the show.
Drink Champs: You perform that song?
Pusha T: I perform—no, I didn't, I didn't even get to. I was into it, got rowdy, and I got on, I got on my way. You know, it was cool.
Drink Champs: That's playing a different game. You get a ban from the country? That's a little next level, bro. That's a little bit—that's a little different on your penniless, bro. That's a little different.
Pusha T: I ain't gonna lie, if I could do it, I would do it too, though.
Drink Champs: You would definitely do it?
Pusha T: I would definitely.
Drink Champs: So in no world, we're never gonna squash this up, hopefully? Maybe in one world?
Pusha T: No, I don't—there's nothing for me to squash. I've done it all. It's done. I'm done. I'm finished. I'm cool. That's nothing, nothing for me to do.
Drink Champs: That's a beautiful thing, man. Congratulations. Let's just—let's put on positive energy. Positive energy, guys. Let's bring the flowers. Hey, hey, man. Mr. Lee was terrible. We don't know if you know our show is about giving people their flowers, and we one million percent want to give you your flowers to your face, how great you are, how you stand. I appreciate the time, man. I've seen how you came, and for you to still be at the level of relevancy, for people to still—for you to make an album the way you made. And like I said, because I'm your friend, because I feel like a family member, especially—we're all under—I think Snoop said, well, he said, "We're all under the Dre tree, and we're all under the Neptune tree." We're all under, and we're trying to wave, leave, or bark, or even the root. We're all part of the tree. And I can't tell you how much I'm proud of you. I can't tell you how much I'm proud of your brother. Every time I see you, every time I've seen him for the last like couple of years, I've been always drunk, and he's always prayed over me. It's been the weirdest—
Pusha T: Wow, that's right though. I mean, that's him.
Drink Champs: And I just want to tell y'all, man, for a standard test of time the way you have and the way you—and still enjoying this game, still being a bar lord, and I can't even find a whack bar. I've been looking, like, "Did he slip here?" He ain't slipping. And you haven't, and I just want to say that is abnormal. That is not a normal thing, and salute you, my brother.
Pusha T: Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Drink Champs: So we want to give you some flowers. Ah, man, that is crazy. Before we go to create time of slime, I just want to go through this playlist. Oh, let's do it. You go hit number one, and you got it before me.
Pusha T: No, it's in your group chat, my fourth.
Drink Champs: Like "Neck and Wrist," don't lie, what?
Pusha T: "Brambleton."
Drink Champs: Okay, yeah, that's one. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that. Sets off the album.
Pusha T: Let's go. Well, first, you know, "Brambleton" set off the album. You know, strategically, I put that there because Big started "Life After Death" with the story, and I always felt like, man, I've never—first of all, I never do many stories. And then I was like, man, I actually got one, and I felt like it was strong enough to just set the tone.
Brambleton Avenue is a place in Norfolk, Virginia. Coming up, my mom worked on it. I could go see her, young kid going to see her. I could see Sweet Pea Whitaker across the street in a project called Young's Park and just outside being great, whatever the case may be.
The song itself was just for me just describing a relationship, describing a relationship I had in the street—my former manager. He was on Vlad not too long ago.
Drink Champs: Oh, is that the same person that you made the snitch record about?
Pusha T: That's—and, you know, sorry, I'm trying to—
Drink Champs: Come on, I feel like the snitch record, I feel like the snitch record was like—
Pusha T: Which is the deal is an acronym, yeah, shout out. But it was just like a lot—I feel like the snitch acronym—I mean, the snitch record itself was just like a lot of just instances that was going on. This record particularly right here was like, after seeing the interview, I was like, damn, that's—
Drink Champs: You described, he was on Vlad TV talking about what? Because I never—
Pusha T: He was on Vlad TV, and he spoke about how—he said, I believe one of the quotes was, "95% of everything was about him," like my raps were about him and like when it came to street.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: And what else was it? It was just a couple different things that I was like, damn, man, I never—I never would see somebody that I've been, you know, so down with or whatever, entrenched in like all type of—never down talk or try to downplay me. I would never—wherever we stand right now, I would never do it. I've never done it, you know what I'm saying. And I just didn't—so I took the time that—I was telling Pharrell about the whole situation or whatever, and he was like, "Man, that's the song right there." He's like, "That's the song." And, you know, I was like, I just wanted to give a real context to what my view of our relationship and what it was.
Drink Champs: Then you know what—your ex-manager?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay, cool.
Pusha T: Just what our relationship was, what it was in the street. And I wanted to make that record because I feel like it speaks to loyalty, being loyal and understanding the idea of team back then. And when all the street s* was going on, man, I always looked at it as a team. All of us was a team. Now you may have this much, I could have this much, they could have this much, but all of it, and everybody was working for the betterment of everybody, and everybody had a role. That was the thing.
Never looked at—never been envious. Never that's just my whole s***. I ain't never been envious of nobody, musically, none of that. That's just not me. I always know how important my role is to whatever situation it is. Even being at Good Music, I don't sell the most records. I ain't never been—I don't sell the most records more than anybody else who've been over there, whatever. Always still, you know, I'm me. Like I know what I bring to the table.
And that song was just for the guys who honestly are in these positions and are in these roles and are doing a thing. And you think that you're focused and you're determined on what it is that you doing. You getting your money, your man getting his money, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you thinking it's teamwork, and in their mind, they call it you working for them. And ultimately, as soon as the roles change or whatever the case may be, you see people's true colors, unfortunately.
Drink Champs: Heavy song, heavy song. I didn't know that.
Pusha T: Yeah, man.
Drink Champs: Listening to that, I just—I ain't gonna lie, over my head now because again, I wasn't listening to it for that.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: I was listening to it that's deep. I was listening for a totally—I'm just looking at the art, and I'm like, it's no way this guy could still be this good. I'm sorry, I was down—you—but because I wasn't down you, like to doubt you, but I was like, it's no way because I—it's just a level of success. It's not, Nori, but you know, we are the era that is going to be able to take—we are the era that is going to be able to see if hip-hop can be progressive as it ages.
Pusha T: Like, this is the time where it figures itself—
Drink Champs: Actually go the real distance.
Pusha T: Go the real distance, you know, get on our YouTube, Rolling Stones, whatever.
Drink Champs: I think like the 4:44 album kind of helped that because I don't know.
Pusha T: But I'm—but that even still, that was—Hov was one—that's one component. He's before our era.
Drink Champs: He's one before us, right?
Pusha T: Yeah, so you need to—and I'm talking about for the genre to look like it can do what it do, he just special and right—he caught on early. But we are the class that is going to be myself, Ye, you know, everybody. Everybody within this time frame is going to be the one to show how far this can go for real.
Drink Champs: I agree, so it's not—I don't think it's that crazy, being still competitive.
Pusha T: Like because we're still competitive, like you said, we still young.
Drink Champs: We are, like—and with that comes the spirit of competition, and creativity has no age limit.
Pusha T: For sure, and however you tap into it, if it's being competitive—
Drink Champs: Some people do it differently.
Pusha T: Yeah, just to tap in that creativity.
Drink Champs: No, for sure.
Pusha T: All right, all right.
Drink Champs: So song number two, "Let the Smokers Shine the Coups."
Pusha T: "Let the Smokers Shine the Coups," man, that was me asking Pharrell to give me his best "Glaciers of Ice" type beat he could ever make. That record actually came from Hit Factory again at six in the morning. But he was at Hit Factory—you know, Miami Hit Factory.
Drink Champs: Yeah, Miami Hit Factory.
Pusha T: And we were like, we had been working at the house for a little while, and I felt like he just wanted a different change of scenery. Sort of exhausted the energy there, and we start going to Hit Factory early.
Drink Champs: Don't, baby, and I'm working at Hit Factory too. I ain't seen nobody.
Pusha T: Yeah, okay but um you know, but working again, it was a thing of me being an actual student with the flow, you know what I'm saying. Him like, "Nah you can't..." Writing, writing, writing and like, "Nah, where's the cadence at? Where's the bounce?"
Drink Champs: That's him telling you that?
Pusha T: Yeah, it might be an initial four bars. He was like "Yeah, but ain't no bounce there, it ain't sticky to the track."
Drink Champs: Is it just y'all two in the studio together probably?
Pusha T: Yeah, this particular day. I don't know if Chad made it yet. All right, I don't know if Chad made it yet.
Drink Champs: Shout out to Chad. I don't think he gets enough credit.
Pusha T: Yeah, he was... he did... I think he did a little co-producing on some stuff too as well.
Drink Champs: That's dope. Okay, um... "Dreaming," "Dreaming of the Past."
Pusha T: "Dreaming of the Past." Man, I actually stole that one because, you know, a lot of times me and Ye work on albums simultaneously. So he got a folder, I got a folder. You know, he pick all the beats and be like, "Okay, that's your folder, this is my folder" and from other producers, some his, and just a hard drive that he has of just joints. And he'll pick stuff that he thinks is a good enough skeleton for me to rhyme to. He accidentally, I think, played that beat and I was like, "Oh that's crazy, let me get that." And he's like, "Nah, I love it, you know, it's mine," this and that. And I kept asking for it, so ultimately he... I noticed he still hadn't wrote the song yet, and I was like, "Damn man, you don't like the song, let me get the song." And he finally let me get it. And I was like, "Listen, why don't you just put like eight bars on the end of it or something, that way I could lock in the song." If he knew he was on it, then I could get it. So that's what we did.
Drink Champs: All right, and then it became...
Pusha T: Yes, yeah, for sure.
Drink Champs: You first recorded it with the intentions of him going on it?
Pusha T: No, no, no, didn't even... No. Once I got it and put the verses on it, he heard it and was like, "Man, I can't be on that," and I was like, "No, you can, like, what's up? Just get yours off." And I gave him the comparison of Big coming in for like three bars on Lil Kim "Queen." And I was like, "Bro, everything you do don't gotta be heavy lifting. You already produced the beat, why you gotta have 16-24 bar? It ain't all that." You know what I'm saying? And I feel like that's why the record wasn't written in the first place. It was heavy, you know... you gotta go in on that joint. He probably was taking his time, whatever. I'm like, "Bro, give it to me, get yours off. You can get yours off in four bars right now."
Drink Champs: Before we go on, because I'm gonna go right back into the album, but before we get into that... Where was you at when you seen Ye say that Sean was the worst thing he's ever...? And he threw the sign down. Where was you?
Pusha T: I think I was at the crib. Yeah, I think I was at the crib.
Drink Champs: I mean, that's the answer, I mean...
Pusha T: I feel like, um, they be having their issues, bro. You know, you can have issues with Ye, man. People have back and forth, you know what I'm saying. So they was having their issues and I guess he felt the need to get it off. And we don't see him that often doing interviews.
Drink Champs: You got the interview, yeah, yeah.
Pusha T: Yeah, clap for that. I can do this too. Yeah, it was great. But yeah, he probably was just getting whatever he felt off his chest. But they be having their little back and forths as well.
Drink Champs: Was it a call that you got from Big Sean after that? Direct? Or no, then you got to see him back on Drink... Big Sean?
Pusha T: No, no, I didn't get no call. I don't think I got a call. Damn, did I? No, I didn't. I mean, I didn't discuss it. I wouldn't discuss it, man. That's they... Man, you know why I say that? Because other than your beef with OVO, I feel like you're the most level-minded person.
Pusha T: I'm for sure the most level-minded. I'm for sure, like, let's just be honest. I'm for sure. We're clear. With the other guys, I'm fair. I'm fair, I'm level-minded. I don't metal. But just, you know, you stay in your lane, I stay in my lane.
Drink Champs: So you don't never step in where Kid Cudi says "Nope, I'm never gonna be on another record."
Pusha T: Nope. I say, "Cudi, please just clear this song, please." I know, I know, I know, because Cudi, you know, Cudi's like... Cudi's my brother. Cudi's like, "Man, he really gonna stand on what it is," you know what I'm saying? Whatever it is that he had an issue with, he gonna stand on that. So man, you don't even know, like he was the last person cleared on the album.
Drink Champs: Wow.
Pusha T: Like, you know what I'm saying, like, so you're getting down to the wire and you getting like...
Drink Champs: Well, because he was holding back.
Pusha T: Damn right.
Drink Champs: Oh yeah, right.
Pusha T: Like, you know, I'm in the studio, I'm in the studio doing like radio drops, and he called me and I'm like, "Bro, please. I know, I know, but just..."
Drink Champs: Why did... you know, because the label had told you that he was...?
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah. So I heard after a while, like when I'm just wondering what's the progress with the album as far as turning it in and handing it in, because the music been done. So I'm trying to figure out what's the date gonna be, and I can't get these answers and nobody's saying nothing for a long time. Now everybody just being, "No, we just getting it together." And then it finally got to come out that it was Cudi and I was like, "Damn." So he ended up calling me and just telling me how he felt and telling me he's gonna clear it. And, you know, it's never nothing about me, but he was like, "This the last one with me." He let it be known.
Drink Champs: I heard you had hired a video director and everything.
Pusha T: I hired a video director. I seen the video director the other night. Seen him the other night. Told me they had the treatment together. Me and Ye picked this particular dude.
Drink Champs: And he's like, "You ain't gonna happen to check though."
Pusha T: No, no, he was like, you know, and everything just blew up. I was like, "Yeah, and I don't know if we ever gonna do it."
Drink Champs: So you got to hear the information prior to it being public?
Pusha T: That Cudi's last...?
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: So he actually called you?
Drink Champs: And then send the tweet out that like... I've never seen the tweet go viral. The tweet was viral. It was everywhere.
Pusha T: I know, man. That's the... you know, Cudi fans is rabid. Like they are rabid. As soon as he do something, say something, they go crazy. I'm gonna tell you something that Cudi did for me that a lot of people don't know. I was like in this weird space, right, and I think I was on tour with a group called Mastercraft.
Drink Champs: You remember this?
Pusha T: Yeah, I remember you recorded that joint at our studio, at Crazy Studios.
Drink Champs: Mastercraft. And they were like a Canadian, like, EDM band, and they wanted me to do a record. So I was in this like weird world, and I would just go and just... did you do the Tonight Show?
Pusha T: I did, yeah. I did like a whole bunch of these... It was like a little crazy year of my life, but I wasn't going to like hip-hop clubs. And I wasn't definitely supposed to go to like real hip-hop clubs. And Cudi, I think I forget how Cudi got in contact with me or how we even spoke, and he said, "Yo, come to my show tonight." And I was like... right. I was like, "For what?" Like, in my mind, I said, "For what." I didn't say "For what" to him, but I was like, "How would I identify with your audience? I'm this guy that's over here doing this different type of music at this point. Like, what? Where does this correlate?" And he brought me out, and then he had me do all these Neptune records. I don't know if he remember that.
Drink Champs: Okay.
Pusha T: And he was like, "Pharrell is god in our world, and you brought us god, so you're god in our world." And I had never thought of it like that. I was like, in this hipster crowd, they with me? What am I doing? I was in like hip-hop purgatory. And I forgot that this is a hipster crowd that Pharrell and kind of like made. This whole audience. And I can still be who I am. And Kid Cudi was the first person to show me that, "Yo brother, you're god in this audience because we looked at that audience like weirdos. We were bozos ourselves. We was like, 'Oh, those guys, you know, they wear backpacks, and you know they do cocaine in the bathroom.'" It's different. It's different. It's different, you know. But then I realized, "Hey man, no, audience is okay."
Drink Champs: Okay, let's get to the next record, "Neck and Wrist." Don't lie now, first off, yes, let's just be clear, you're using "Drug Dealers Anonymous." You're using this... So this is favor dose?
Pusha T: Yeah, it's not favor on them, it's favor.
Drink Champs: I know, man. It's... The hook already there? Are y'all making the record? You saying, "We calling the guard." As you're making the record, or you all...?
Pusha T: As soon as I laid the verse, the hook is there. I was like, "Listen, format it so he has a space." Matter of fact, no, it was like the bridge, everything. And I was like, "Just leave him open space." And man, I just emailed it to him.
Drink Champs: See, me personally, the name of the record would have scared me to send it to him.
Pusha T: Nah.
Drink Champs: Because, you know, "Neck and Wrist Don't Lie."
Pusha T: I went, had drinks with him one time and he had on just a light 3.5 million dollars.
Drink Champs: Not a stolen site?
Pusha T: No, no, it was. I believe it was a Patek, Factory.
Drink Champs: Of course.
Pusha T: They called it the Pablo Escobar, some like this.
Drink Champs: I didn't even want to accidentally...
Pusha T: No, listen, I'm trying to say... About 3.5 million. This was an off day. That was the only reason I call him though, honestly, I mean, about music. When it comes to music, because I wrote a second verse for it, it just didn't hit like I wanted it to hit. So and I only reach... like I said, I only reach out to him musically when I feel like the song needs an uptick, like take it to the next level.
Drink Champs: Yes, and we had Jupiter.
Pusha T: Yeah, let's go to Mars.
Drink Champs: For sure.
Pusha T: And I mean, "Neck and Wrist Don't Lie," I knew, I know that he's gonna say 12 things that I can't say, you know what I'm saying? Like, I could... there's other artists who could have been on it. It was disrespectful, but they not going to say too much.
Drink Champs: He said, "I can't..." His mansions on a wall, stop.
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah. That's... That's just... No, we got different sob stories. Like I was done. I'm done. Like, I need... I was done. But yeah, so I just reach out to him. I reach out to him, you know, when I feel like...
Drink Champs: He got a bottle of Ace of Spade for you just in case. You know, to celebrate your album with you, in case, you know what I mean?
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah, you know, I reach out when I feel like he can add something to the song that I just can't do. And it was dope because you got the guys got to premiere on iHeart.
Drink Champs: Yeah, every hour on the hour.
Pusha T: So her person didn't like y'all.
Drink Champs: They got to... they got to not like y'all more because every hour on... I mean, explain that to an artist. We're gonna get right back into the album, but is that like a plus when you could be able to just go straight out of the gate and get it on the radio because of, you know, who you are and the person you have on it?
Pusha T: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that when you can get a record on radio and people and it gets that head start, that jump start, you usually do that in trying to make sure that that record is gonna go like really, you know, try to chart, so on and so forth.
Drink Champs: And you still feel that radio has that impact today?
Pusha T: Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think radio is very important. I think for what it is that we do, man, we need to check off every box, you know what I'm saying?
Drink Champs: For sure.
Pusha T: Like, we need to check off every box. And that was something that like, just out of respect of who it was on the song, I'm like, I'm really fighting like... Nah, at the end of the day, I want people to get a song. It needs that look. I mean, the profile of the of the artist on it, the features, you know, him and Pharrell is too high for it not to get that look. I don't necessarily make radio records, you know what I'm saying?
Drink Champs: But then the video is gonna be like a headache.
Pusha T: Well, the video, we're not gonna do a video.
Drink Champs: You know what's crazy?
Pusha T: No, we're doing a video.
Drink Champs: You know what's crazy, which people would appreciate if y'all was to do a video where you're not even in there.
Pusha T: Oh, no, we, we, we'll do something like that. But I'm saying, I'm, you know, for people thinking we're gonna shoot a video like Hove's coming to sit on a set, do a video? Yeah, it's not happening.
Drink Champs: I don't think so.
Pusha T: Which I mean, maybe I would have shot it in his house.
Drink Champs: I mean, you know, just so he didn't have to be on the phone, bro, on the iPhone.
Pusha T: But nah, but, you know, end of the day, man, I think that record had the impact and it talked to our core, my core and his core. I think they the same.
Drink Champs: So let's move on to the next record, "Just So You Remember."
Pusha T: "Just So You Remember Who You Dealing With." That's the rap moment on the album to me, like the heavy rap moment. Stripped down beat and, you know, it's one of my favorite records, but it stayed in more of that mixtape lane, you know, just barring out, barring out. I don't even know how many lines it is, but it's a lot.
Drink Champs: Okay, now let's go to the next record, "Diet Coke."
Pusha T: "Diet Coke."
Drink Champs: Now here's the question I asked about this. Did y'all call Joey Crack before this?
Pusha T: No, no, we just sampled him. He got to hear it with us like...
Drink Champs: Or like, damn.
Pusha T: You know what? Somebody might have told him, maybe, or... Yeah, but it dropped as a single so you got to clear it.
Drink Champs: Right, so yeah.
Pusha T: So probably in the clearance process he knew. But the record was done and he was like, "Nah, you got to put Joe Crack, Fat Joe on the front of that though." "Yesterday's price..."
Drink Champs: Yep, yep. He was like, "I gotta start like that."
Pusha T: That to me is Jay's biggest, you know, his... Yeah, his, that's where his genius comes from, his instincts. It's fast, like, you know what I'm saying? Like when he's in the moment and it's musically and his instincts kick in, you are definitely gonna get a gym out of like what it is that he's trying to make or create.
Drink Champs: Was it also him who said black and white video, and he gonna dance like Puff Daddy?
Pusha T: That's the whole... the whole thing. He saw the whole...
Drink Champs: He saw the whole...
Pusha T: He saw the whole, crazy...
Drink Champs: "Flavor in Your Ear"...
Pusha T: Listen, change my outfit. I ain't have on the leather. He wanted me to have on the leather. I had on like some type of vest. "Nah, you need the leather to Craig Mack, big pocket. You know, you got to have it." But yeah, like he saw the whole vision for that. And once the record was done, the video was shot the next day. So he was like, "Nah, y'all get in, y'all go shoot the final space, go do it." And I don't know, eight, nine hours on set.
Drink Champs: This is Def Jam budget?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Like your face... She got real just now.
Pusha T: Hell yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay, hold on, where we at? Oh, you want to ask this one? "Rock and Roll."
Pusha T: "Rock and Roll."
Drink Champs: I heard it's a perfect day. Perfect day, everybody was there. Smoked up. I just threw that out there. I don't know.
Pusha T: I don't know that part, but I heard everyone was...
Drink Champs: Cudi just arrived in the studio?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Jay is already... This is already down. This is a perfect day, perfect record?
Pusha T: Yep. Just a really good day. Ye just was like, he got on the MPC and started chopping the Beyoncé "One Plus One" sample. And you know, like you said, Cudi came through. The only thing he couldn't find, like five hooks, but the only thing Ye couldn't find that day was the drums. And so, you know, it takes me a second just to write anyway. So by the time he was like, "Yo, send this to Pharrell, let him put his drums on it."
Drink Champs: So that's the only record they worked on collaborative?
Pusha T: That's the only record that it was because of that, because he couldn't figure out the drums.
Drink Champs: I mean, he just... he just didn't have, like, I remember him just going through drums and none of it was hitting to his liking, none of it was hitting to his liking. And he was like, "Yo, send, send this to P, like, tell him put his drums on it." Because had he not figured, had he figured out the drums, it might not have been a collaborative record.
Pusha T: Right, right, right, right.
Drink Champs: It wasn't, you know, it wasn't supposed to be like... He should be in the moment...
Pusha T: Like, for lack of a better term, for back then, it was supposed to be like a Side A/Side B.
Drink Champs: Right, was it?
Pusha T: That's... yeah, like, supposed to be, for sure.
Drink Champs: Okay, for sure. Oh, that's good. For this, this next record, I feel like... And let's be clear, so we're not getting the Kid Cudi and Kanye video? And if we do get it, it's gonna be in separate rooms because that could still happen?
Pusha T: I would, I would like for it... I mean, listen, it was performing really well, so I think we should... I mean, I talked to, I talked to Cudi yesterday and just was like telling him how crazy the song is doing. He's like, "Nah, you know, I know, I love that record," this and that. So...
Drink Champs: And you own this master too, this time?
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Drink Champs: Let's make some noise for that.
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think, I think Cudi should do it. They don't have to be in the same room. We've done...
Drink Champs: They don't gotta be, yeah.
Pusha T: Cool.
Drink Champs: Let's go to the next one. For some reason, I feel like this is one of your top three of the album, "Call My Bluff."
Pusha T: "Call My Bluff." "Call My Bluff," for sure, is top three for me, simply because it was... it was work. It was real work. And I again, it was like, you know, again, me taking direction and like, you know, really hopping into character and really just trying to execute, execute what it is that P wanted me to... you know, what he feels is gonna level me up musically. Man, the whole idea of the record came from... I thought I was gonna have an issue with somebody, and I was telling, I was telling Pharrell about it. And my man had called me, was like, "Oh, you know, you know, I heard it's about, you know, it might be something, blah, blah, blah, blah." He was like, "Well, you know, his girl be trying to me all the time." And he was like, he was like, "Yeah, she'd be in my DM's," and room, like, he was like, "Yeah, all the time." He said, "So I'ma... he's... I'ma tape her." He said, "We gonna have fun with it, we can have fun," like, "we can have fun with this whole because it's gonna kill him."
Drink Champs: Right, right.
Pusha T: And then he was like, "And you know, and if you go crazy, but if you get crazy or whatever, he, he sent me two addresses." He was like, "You know, it can go wherever." I thought about... I'm thinking to myself like, "I'm not even on it, like, I ain't even tripping like that." But I knew it myself like, "Yo, if I even entertain this..." I was excited about it at first, and then I was like, "If I entertain it, it's a force that I can't really turn off," because he not gonna play at all. So needless to say, I told... I was telling P about it, and that's where the the nonchalant "I can get it done, I can have it happen, Joker energy, nonchalant, you know what I'm saying, it's... it's my way if I really wanted to be my way" attitude comes from in the joint.
Drink Champs: I wouldn't have thought that.
Pusha T: That's... I mean, that's just the real backstory.
Drink Champs: All right, so "Scrape It Off."
Pusha T: "Scrape It Off The Top." I just... Man, the record was... The track was so... It was fun.
Drink Champs: That's... that's your radio record to me.
Pusha T: You think so?
Drink Champs: To me, to me, that's... I want to see you win.
Pusha T: Motherfucking Anguilla.
Drink Champs: Oh, okay, eating mangoes.
Pusha T: Okay, on the... What's it? What's the thing? The hammock?
Drink Champs: Hammock, hammock, hammock.
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah, I think that... I think that that's it. That's my opinion.
Pusha T: I mean, I... you know, I just think it's fire. I mean, it... Listen, it's performing crazy, you know what I'm saying? I feel like Uzi is the king of the youth, for real. I feel like Don Toliver is... when it comes to the melodies, I can't go on my Explore page and ain't a girl putting on makeup to Don Toliver's music.
Drink Champs: Wow, fire.
Pusha T: You know? I'm saying he just... he's... he... he's talking at that frequency that people rocking with, girls are rocking with. So you... you could be right. I'm just, you know, you got to see how these joints, you know, how it turns out.
Drink Champs: "Hear Me Clearly."
Pusha T: "Hear Me Clearly." Man, you know what's crazy? How... This is... this is real talk. I don't think anybody here knows this. I probably started working with Pharrell '97. It had to be because it dropped in '98, and remember, back then we had to record a year in advance. As much as I've ever been around Pharrell, as much as... it gave me one of the first pair of Bapes, and I wore it and everyone laughed at me because they said those look like fake Uptowns.
Drink Champs: Me too.
Pusha T: Never one time in all of these years has Nigo ever said hi to me.
Drink Champs: Wow.
Pusha T: I swear to God, we've been in the same room, and I've never... Once, he's never like said hi. And I might be just as guilty. Like, I'll... you know, I might be just as guilty because I've never, probably never said hi back because I never felt like... I never felt like his energy permitted me to say hi. So all these years, I've never said... Me and Nigo have never spoke. I don't even know if he speak English. That's how ill it is. I've never seen him speak.
Drink Champs: I don't know. I mean, you know, I can't even really speak to that, but I, you know, I know that just with him, it's a respect thing. And like, just, you know, respecting people's space and just... It's just what they... what they do over there. Anyway, so... I mean, he's familiar. Like, we met him, we met him because of the music.
Pusha T: I heard that y'all met him because of the jewelry?
Drink Champs: No, because... Well, he was a fan of the music, and then found out that P was getting his jewelry done from... from Jacob. So he would come and get everything P got in three colors with all the best diamonds, every time. And that's, you know, that... that's who really made that connection as far as Nigo goes.
Pusha T: All right, so let's get to that record. Break down that record.
Drink Champs: Oh, man. "Hear Me Clearly." One of the first records that I did. And, you know, the, the, the beat just had a real... It just spoke to me, and it spoke to the hot 16 in me. And, you know, just recently, my biggest regret from this album is Nas not being on this record because I... I did that... that the one verse that I had on it. I sent it to Nas ages ago. Oh, ages ago. As soon as I got... I was like, "Nah, I want Nas on this," because I felt like he would have killed it.
Pusha T: Right, right.
Drink Champs: So they got quiet. I didn't hear from him for a long time or whatever. But I gave it to him so long ago that I felt like, you know, I... you know, I gave him time. So I ran into him at Cote, man, the Korean steakhouse.
Pusha T: What is it? Quite, C-O-T-E?
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah, Quite.
Pusha T: Okay. Put a little boozy to it.
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah. You know what? I might be... put out there, bro. No, I don't know that. Could be Koi. Let's call him Koi.
Pusha T: All right, so... Man, ran into him. He's like, "Yo, what's up, blasey, blasey, blah."
Drink Champs: In Miami or in New York?
Pusha T: In New York.
Drink Champs: In New York. Okay.
Pusha T: He own them both. He... Man, he, he brought out thousands of dollars worth of wagyu and, and, and sent it over to the table, came over. We just talked about... I was like, "Man, you know, I still want you on this record." I said, "Man, I want you to be..." I said, "I'm gonna put this record out," because by this time, Paris Fashion Week, it happened, they got the snippet, they got all the hits or whatever. And I was like, "But I want you to still be the last verse, because that'll be the surprise on my album," like, you know, "because I'm put the song on my album for sure." So... So... Yeah, like, it just didn't happen, man. It did not happen, man. Biggest regret, biggest regret out of the album.
Drink Champs: Wow. Okay. Moving on. "Open Air?"
Pusha T: "Open Air." I feel like "Open Air" was an answer to one of those records, and it was either an answer to "Dreaming of the Past," or it was an answer to... to "Hear Me Clearly." That was Pharrell trying to get in his dark bag, and... just, you know, just trying to really just like... Man, he couldn't have all the hard records.
Drink Champs: Right, right.
Pusha T: You gotta show he could do it too all right.
Drink Champs: Okay, now the last one.
Pusha T: The best one.
Drink Champs: You know what was crazy? When I first listened to it, I didn't look at the features on purpose. I wanted to just appreciate the music. What I did want to do was to listen to it in order that you made it.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Sometimes they shuffle, so what I kept doing was after I was playing it, I went back to the original playlist to make sure it was correct. And you and your brother sound so good together! I couldn't really see where you started and he finished.
Pusha T: Oh wow.
Drink Champs: So I sat back, I was like "Oh!" Like I said, I didn't look at—I didn't know he was on there. And it just reminded me like, oh, the young version of the Clipse. I remember the "Grinding" video, me driving out there and me going to y'all hood and seeing like, "Wow, Virginia's really in the hood!"
But how hard—I know you got the little brother card, I've been watching your interviews, but still this album doesn't really represent what he represents. What I mean by that is, you know, he's a man of God, he's a man. Like this wasn't like a Mase move—not taking a shot at Mace—but like this was like he really dove in. Follow him on Instagram, he has people that he preaches to. This is a real full-fledged thing. So how do you convince him? Like I said I know you got the little brother card, but other than that? Because it's like, I know you're gonna say, "Well, you know, well you got this other content on here." So how do you convince him to do that?
Pusha T: Um, you know, it wasn't really convincing. I think my brother's really self-aware. Like he knows—my brother knows he's like the realist. He knows he's the realist, so he can—you put him in any situation and he just gonna be him, do him. He don't—you know, he doesn't necessarily think that because he's on a record that has whatever type of content... Like, you know, if you let him tell it, he getting his message across. And his take away from his... And you know, it's competitive for him too. He like, "Man, I'm still dope. Like I'm dope and I can be dope saying this, and I can be better than you saying it." You know, that's his whole... So, um, that record—I think that record let everybody know that the possibility of doing a Clipse record would make a lot of people happy and, you know, just—I don't know. I think that like, I mean, it would just be up to him. It's just up to him, like it ain't even me.
Drink Champs: So there's no conversations from that record?
Pusha T: Oh, that's—listen, he into making it a reality. Funny thing is, he hit me the other day like, "Oh, I see what they saying." He hit me the other day, he's like, "I see what they saying," and he was like, "Yo, I want you to change on the credits, make sure it says Malice, not No Malice."
Drink Champs: Wow.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Did I—I did—it does say No Malice. It does...
Pusha T: No, no, it says Malice.
Drink Champs: It says Malice? Wait, hold on. This is Malice?
Pusha T: Yeah, what is this?
Drink Champs: See, I pray—
Pusha T: No Malice.
Drink Champs: But what is this though?
Pusha T: Like that was—that was—
Drink Champs: No, no, no, not—yes, it's not on the actual...
Pusha T: Yeah, look.
Drink Champs: You want the same message, no—no, but I'm on another—I'm on another page. You guys pulled off an album together. You could—that duality can exist.
Pusha T: Yo, yo, listen, it would be so crazy.
Drink Champs: If we work together too long, this is—yeah. I remember a dude from my hood that passed away, so I don't want to—but um, he told me, he was like, "Yo, I want to get on." He was like, "So I want to, I want to diss you." And I was like, "Diss me, dude?" I was like, "Guess what? Guess that made him." He was like, "No, because you're the biggest artist, so if I diss you, I'll get attention." So I said, "All right, Q, you know what we'll do? Let's do it on the same record. You diss me, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna be able to go back." I'm sorry, I really rapped.
And it made me think about that because it was two opposite opinions, and I was like, yeah. But he never got to do it. He passed away. But I think of that when I think of you and your brother, like you're not changing nothing, and him not changing nothing, and it'd be the opposite of opinion, but it's where you guys correlate and when you guys go down the same train, you know.
Pusha T: Even in my solo, in my solo career, I still know the difference. I still know what I'm missing. Like that's the one thing I have not been able to really pinpoint. But like, you know, to sort of give to the fans what—you know, like the fact of me being solo and not being able to really channel and tap in, I know what the fan is missing when they just hear me and don't hear him. You know what I'm saying? I really, really do. And um, you know, it's something, it's something I used to, you know, I really used to try really hard to do, but um, still to this day, um, I still don't, I don't hit the vein. I don't hit the vein properly when it come to that.
Drink Champs: And he was rapping before you?
Pusha T: Oh, my brother's five years older than me.
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: Yeah, he's been rapping, been everything.
Drink Champs: Do we have a church?
Pusha T: No.
Drink Champs: We need, we need to—hip-hop need to build—
Pusha T: Oh, a church?
Drink Champs: Yeah, Malice church. Listen, he'd kill it.
Pusha T: Yes.
Drink Champs: We need that. We need because, um, like there's certain people who I want to pray over me. It'd be like Rev Run, DMX, and your brother. Like, you know what I'm saying? Pray for me. Like, if that was a thing, because I believe in him, like, you know what I'm saying, I believe.
Pusha T: X wanted to do a song with my brother.
Drink Champs: Oh, no, that would have been crazy.
Pusha T: I know, that would have been crazy.
Drink Champs: Um, you're in a relationship with X, correct?
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay. Yeah, that was uh, that was the, that was the big homie. So we're gonna move on right now.
Pusha T: Yes sir.
Drink Champs: By the way, congratulations once again to you for the album. Congratulations for making a masterpiece. I'm gonna go ahead and say it's a classic.
Pusha T: Thank you, thank you.
Drink Champs: I'm not gonna wait for the, you know, hi everyone else. It's definitely a classic, and I'm very glad that you didn't let Kanye slack, you didn't let Pharrell slack because these are both very rich people. Before we move on to Quick Time with Slime.
Pusha T: Yeah, I'm gonna piss while you do that.
Drink Champs: Okay. Yeah, all right.
Quick Time with Slime
Drink Champs: This is a watch question. You probably don't even care—probably don't even care—who got the best watch game in the game, for real for real?
Pusha T: I mean...
Drink Champs: I'm talking about everybody.
Pusha T: Man, it might be—ho got the most expensive watches.
Drink Champs: Yeah, most expensive for sure.
Pusha T: Right, right. Okay, but um, I don't know man. I mean, P is—P strong.
Drink Champs: No, P is correct. Let me just tell you something. He was wearing Richard Millys when I thought they were swaps. A long time, a long time.
Pusha T: That's what I'm getting at, that's what I'm getting at, that's what I'm getting at. Like I'm talking about when you're talking about first word, when you talk about first word, you gotta really—it ain't a lot that he ain't first at.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: So it's—I mean, um, Mark Wahlberg is out here disrespectful.
Drink Champs: Who is that?
Pusha T: Mark Wahlberg.
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is.
Pusha T: Wahlberg is disrespectful. His wife's killing.
Drink Champs: Yeah, he's this college—is out here monkey footin' too.
Pusha T: Yeah, but I—though. Pharrell got a six million dollar joint from the moon with the moon dust in it or something.
Drink Champs: Yeah, I was going to say—you know how—you know like, we came up together? You can't even say that with that watch. Just be like—I was gonna take that loss.
Pusha T: Listen, he got all the—I mean, and you know he only doing the right...
Drink Champs: Yeah, yeah.
Pusha T: The one I see he got a new Richard Milly with the Cuban link band from Richard Milly.
Drink Champs: Yep, yep. This is—excuse me. He calls him Richard.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Richard. I don't know Richard. To me, it's Mama named Richard, I'm calling Richard. But uh, so you're saying Pharrell top one, Jay-Z most expensive?
Pusha T: Yeah, I mean, who—listen, I ain't gonna lie. Jay Balvin—I said his name correct this time.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Jay Balvin out here.
Drink Champs: Oh yeah, you know he's heavy. He's heavy.
Pusha T: He's heavy too. I'm just saying that like when I'm, when I'm considering that, you know, the game, I'm talking about like, man, when you—I feel like Pharrell put a lot of people on to things. You know what I'm saying? We talking about the watches right now, but even that, I feel like he put people on. Um, you know, it'll be a back and forth. I mean, all bro—look how far hip-hop is coming. Everybody's a billionaire every day, so it can be a new, a new most expensive watch every day. But I'm talking about, you know, when you look at who is like, okay, people following culturally like what he did, whatever the case may be, I feel like—yeah, like he's like one of those. Definitely one of them ones.
Drink Champs: Yeah, him—Drake is outside too.
Pusha T: I don't know, I'm not—I don't follow him.
Drink Champs: I just wanted to see your face expression. I'm sorry.
Pusha T: He's, he's pretty ill too, um, yeah. But you said Pharrell in your book for number one watch guy?
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Okay.
Drink Champs: We gonna play a game right now. It's called Quick Time with Slime.
Pusha T: Sure.
Drink Champs: You familiar with it?
Pusha T: Let's do it.
Drink Champs: We're gonna give you—it's a post choice, one or other. If you um, if you uh, pick both, you take a shot for it. If you're not drinking, we can have somebody come in and drink. We got Mr. Lee come in and drink for you if you're not drinking, because he's been on your album.
Pusha T: I did cocaine deals together.
Drink Champs: Right, I'm just calling out there—Dominicans. A guy from Virginia is definitely cocaine in my heart. I just know, I just learned there. But if you want, you can do that, or you can—because I heard you drink, you drink Deli or you drink the black man. That's right. You got someone drinking for you?
Pusha T: You got someone drinking for you?
Drink Champs: No, I don't have nobody drinking for me because I got one more day of Ramadan. I'm trying, you know. I'm trying, I'm gonna make the one day.
Pusha T: Cool, the one day, but you—we're celebrating you.
Drink Champs: Oh, Sonny, can you drink for me?
Sonny: Yes, I'm sorry. Yes.
Drink Champs: I thought you think—Oh, I thought you made me personally. No, no, Sonny, come in, bro. I don't like being too sober and shit, it's like...
Pusha T: Sonny, you don't have to put on a headband for this.
Drink Champs: Come on.
Pusha T: This one off top.
Drink Champs: Yes sir. Can we get him um, um, a cup? This one off top.
Pusha T: Give Sonny, um—now I'm gonna tell you off top, I'm picking somebody every time, so it don't matter.
Drink Champs: So we're not, so we're not drinking is what you're saying?
Pusha T: I'm picking somebody every time.
Drink Champs: Cypress Hill killed it with—they did. They picked somebody every time, but it was crazy. They all was in one.
Pusha T: Yeah, I'll tell you. I'll tell you—I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you. One—I don't know if I'm—I'm actually, uh, I'm gonna tell you one time. You called me. He was disappointed and you—
Drink Champs: No, no.
Pusha T: Oh, and Pharrell. And I'm gonna tell you, in fact, there's a six o'clock in the morning call. I remember where I was at, and you—you taught me something. You taught—you didn't—you didn't know this. I don't know if you know this, but you taught me something. This is when we first came up with Quick Time.
Drink Champs: I want you to air it.
Pusha T: Huh?
Drink Champs: I didn't want you to air it.
Pusha T: No, no, no, no, no. I didn't want you to—the Quick Time with Slime. I had wished you didn't air it. You know.
Drink Champs: Okay, all right. So I remember you called and you said, "I'm in the middle of making this album and we almost damn near in the middle of the war with this guy." And he had to be politically correct because I believe the answer for Quick Time with Slime was "Push or Drake," and Pharrell said he drank for it. He drank for it. It was like he's being politically correct, and you was—that was the first time I ever like heard like you even like not mad, but you was disappointed. Like "We're in the middle of war, this motherfucker making my album. He couldn't pick me?"
Pusha T: I never see to emotional.
Drink Champs: Yeah, and is that because—because I—there's a code of the streets, right? Where you're my man, I'm with you right or wrong, but I also tell you when you're wrong.
Pusha T: Oh yeah, I do that.
Drink Champs: Why did you feel like—not betrayed, I don't want—that's a wrong answer. Why didn't you think Pharrell answered—he didn't answer that question correct?
Pusha T: Because there is no wrong when it comes to me and P, right? It's just "you're right," I don't care, right? And that's just what it is. Like that's just what it is. Like, even when you're wrong...
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: He could be the wrong person in this room right now. He's right. Right now, we can go out there and I'd be like, "Yo, you wrong," but that's how it goes. That's just going back to the team.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Like that's just what it is.
Drink Champs: All right, but—but I will say this though, like you—he's sitting in front of you, you know what I'm saying? And like, and he got—he, you know, he's sitting in front of you, and you're the same, right? It's us, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm thinking, I expect Pharrell to be politically correct, right? Until you gave me that point of view, was like, "Yo, I'm in the middle of making the album." Now, normally he's producing it. I don't need that type of—I wanted him to say, you know, me, like you know what I'm saying?
Pusha T: And I didn't look at—I, I didn't look at every single—you know, you know on a chess board where the where the pawn moves a little bit?
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: And, and no one really just picks it up that—that—that little move that the pawn makes matters too later on.
Drink Champs: Every move matters.
Pusha T: Every move matters.
Drink Champs: Every move matters, right?
Pusha T: Ye.
Drink Champs: Every move matters, P.
Pusha T: Every move matters.
Drink Champs: Right, right.
Pusha T: Yes, right.
Drink Champs: Okay. Yeah, okay. We're getting into Quick Time with Slime. Beginning. And by the way, just so you know, your friend Mr. Lee writes this to, to, to, to, to crash people up. So he definitely probably did this directly for you.
Pusha T: All right, cool. You ready?
Drink Champs: Now, this is either artist, producer, whichever way you want.
Pusha T: Shout out to Puff, man.
Drink Champs: Yeah, shout out. Shout out.
Pusha T: That's right.
Drink Champs: Yeah, he making an album.
Pusha T: Yeah, yeah.
Drink Champs: And yeah, yeah, yeah. He ain't even let me hear it because he, he said I'm gonna blow it up. I said yes, I am. Um, um... Kanye or Pharrell?
Pusha T: Pharrell.
Drink Champs: Okay. Jada Kiss or Fabulous?
Pusha T: Jada.
Drink Champs: Swiss Beats or Timbaland?
Pusha T: Swiss.
Drink Champs: I'm not gonna ask why. Oh, I mean, you know, I'm just—you know, Swiss made "Money Cash Hoes." I'm done.
Pusha T: Money Cash Ho, Money Cash Yeah.
Drink Champs: Primo or P-Rock?
Pusha T: Presidente.
Drink Champs: Okay, and you're taking a shot.
Pusha T: 2 Chainz or Big Sean?
Drink Champs: 2 Chainz had the best verse on "Mercy."
Pusha T: Okay.
Drink Champs: How's verse go?
Pusha T: How's the verse go?
Drink Champs: Nobody remember?
Pusha T: Come on.
Drink Champs: 2 Chainz had the best verse on "Mercy."
Pusha T: So you remember a little bit.
Drink Champs: Let's go.
Pusha T: All right, KRS or Rakim?
Drink Champs: Fuck.
Pusha T: Man.
Drink Champs: Take a shot.
Pusha T: Nah, I'm not taking a shot. I'm gonna pick one. I'm gonna pick one. I'm gonna take a shot. But uh...
Drink Champs: You had to take a shot today.
Pusha T: No, he's just taking a shot 'cause... Who do you think?
Drink Champs: Both.
Pusha T: Yeah, both.
Drink Champs: Yeah, I would. Man, that's tough, um... Both were game changers at that time.
Pusha T: Yeah, so both. I don't know man, 'cause I still see—I like right this very second, I feel like you lean in Rakim.
Drink Champs: No, nah. 'Cause right this very second I feel like, I feel like KRS still could sit in front of me and rhyme and scold me and everybody at this table right now, you know what I'm saying? And he would, and he would, and he would, and he would, and he would, and he would. Yeah, like, uh... But Rakim, Rakim definitely had more of an impact on me just culturally, like I feel like I, you know... Man, you never notice Rakim ain't even curse?
Pusha T: Right, that's crazy.
Drink Champs: Just crazy. I don't—I'm gonna say both, forget it.
Pusha T: Yeah, take a shot.
Drink Champs: Okay, okay. But I ain't scared to say either one, but I'm just—I can't think right now. It goes without saying.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay, yeah. ODB or Bismarck?
Pusha T: Bismarck.
Drink Champs: Pretty much they was in the same category too, right?
Pusha T: I like that.
Drink Champs: If it wasn't like a Bismarck, it probably wouldn't be an ODB.
Pusha T: I like it.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: I definitely love it.
Drink Champs: Let me ask you before we move on.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Have you been approached to do Verzuz?
Pusha T: No. I don't think so, right? No.
Drink Champs: Something you interested in?
Pusha T: Not really.
Drink Champs: Huh?
Pusha T: No, not right now. Not right now. I'm still like, I'm still competing right now in the right—right now. And I'm still like trying to like—I don't even wanna—bro, I'm working on the next album now. Like right this second, the third and fourth or whatever days I'm supposed to be in the studio. I actually canceled studio today, so nah. I'm like trying to—we gonna see, we gonna see how far this really, really go. And I ain't trying to reminisce about nothing, about nothing.
Drink Champs: Yeah, that's fine.
Pusha T: Okay.
Drink Champs: So, you ain't—yeah, so you saying basically you're not, you're not interested in Verzuz right now?
Pusha T: No, no.
Drink Champs: Even if the bag is hefty?
Pusha T: Oh, I mean the bag's stupid, who—I mean, you gotta be stupid. But I'm not—but no, but like—no, Verzuz is something I like. Like it's something I like, it's something I like, it's something I like to watch. It's something that I'm into. So bag wise, I wasn't even thinking—I'm like, I'm thinking you just asking me on some—in general, you know. You know, it's kind of like—I don't know, you know—obviously you know, but DJ Cassidy, he has this thing called Pass the Mic, which I love. I actually love it. But he's been asking you to do it forever.
Drink Champs: He's been asking me to do it.
Pusha T: But he names it "90s rappers." And it's like, I don't want to be there, bro. I'm a, I'm a 2022 hip-hop media motherfucking mogul. I don't want to be labeled a fucking 90s rapper.
Drink Champs: I mean—
Pusha T: Nah, it's just that—
Drink Champs: You ain't doing it, you just said.
Pusha T: I mean, yeah.
Drink Champs: You just said you never want to reminisce.
Pusha T: Yeah, I never heard a put like that. I don't want to reminisce.
Drink Champs: Yeah, I don't want to reminisce, right? That's basically what—what—me and you are saying the same dialect in a different way, in a different vernacular, but—because you don't—like you don't want—do you still perform "Grinding"?
Pusha T: I do. I will. I'll still perform "Grinding." I don't perform much else though.
Drink Champs: Okay, you know, I, I still perform "Grinding," right? Because I went to a Cam'ron show and he didn't perform "Horse and Carriage." I was mad.
Pusha T: Mmm.
Drink Champs: I was upset. I wanted "Horse and Carriage."
Pusha T: And "357."
Drink Champs: Oh yeah. I want—yeah, you would.
Pusha T: Yeah, you would.
Drink Champs: I mean, I would. I wanted—I wanted that. I never told him that. Probably I would.
Pusha T: Okay, boom. You ready?
Drink Champs: Boys in the Hood or Menace to Society?
Pusha T: Boys in the Hood.
Drink Champs: Okay. Boys in the Hood, that's—dough. Ice Cube, that's right.
Pusha T: All right. Menace to Society is Lorenz Tate.
Drink Champs: Lorenz Tate, that's right. And Boys in the Hood was first.
Pusha T: Okay. ASAP Rocky or Travis Scott?
Drink Champs: ASAP Rocky.
Pusha T: Said that very fast, sir.
Drink Champs: Mm-hmm. I mean, like them both but, Rocky. 'Cuz a lot of people say that Rocky's like the originator.
Pusha T: Oh, I don't even compare the two. I just, you know, Rocky's taste level is just—
Drink Champs: Right.
Pusha T: A1.
Drink Champs: Mm-hmm.
Pusha T: Like super high. I think Travis makes dope records. I think there's something, there's a really classic about Rocky that I fuck with.
Drink Champs: Yes. We fuck with Rocky too.
Pusha T: Yeah.
Drink Champs: Okay, you got the next one.
Pusha T: No, I don't even have it pulled up.
Drink Champs: Come on.
Pusha T: When you fuck up, then you tell me.
Drink Champs: You got the next one.
Pusha T: No, no, no, no, it's not I—it's not I fucked up. I just forgot to type in my code. 'Cuz I be—'cuz people be telling me my code. I be switching my shit every week. They be like, "Yo, brother." You be like every 20—
Drink Champs: You got the next one.
Pusha T: 1, 2, 4, 5. They be like, "Your code is 1, 2, 4." I'm like, "How the fuck do they see this shit on the internet?" So, yeah, so, you know.
Drink Champs: Yeah, stop doing that.
Pusha T: Hey, I've learned. Rhymefest or Saha the Prince?
Drink Champs: Hmm, they both been a part of history. I'm gonna say both.
Pusha T: Okay, we respect that.
Drink Champs: Oh, we gotta take the shot, buddy.
Pusha T: Yes, come on, take the shot. Don't fall asleep here, bro.
Drink Champs: They both been a part of history. They both, they both been done some very, very incredible things and been a part of a lot of like legacy shit. Like, can't even front on them, either one.
Pusha T: Okay, ready?
Drink Champs: Yep.
Pusha T: Big L or Big Pun?
Drink Champs: Big Pun.
Pusha T: Reason why?
Drink Champs: Or you—Big Pun. Big Pun made "Twins." It's crazy, ain't nobody doing that. Get it in the middle, a little—
Pusha T: Like how he refers to the specific track that he's thinking in his mind at that moment.
Drink Champs: Yes.
Pusha T: I love the fan version of it.
Drink Champs: Yeah.
Pusha T: Oh, he's like, the name, the song—
Drink Champs: I love it.
Pusha T: I can see it in your
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Pusha T on Drink Champs 2022
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Pusha T On "It's Almost Dry," Drake, Working W/ JAY-Z, Ye, Pharrell & More | Drink Champs - YouTube
N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the #DrinkChamps. In this episode we chop it up with the legendary #PushaT!Our fellow Drink Champs Alumni joins us once again. Pusha T ...